View Full Version : UK Adult Website Laws - advice please
scoobie
08-17-05, 06:01 PM
Hi Guys I really need some help with this one. I'm an English webmaster living out in Spain. I need to move back to the UK due to a family crisis for a few years or so.
Is it legal to upload from the UK (via FTP) to the USA normal hardcore fucking & sucking. I use CCBill in Arizona to process & will also need to get them to pay me into my UK bank account.
Currently as I'm in Spain the upload goes out from here & payment come into my Spanish bank account.
I don't wanna get arrested for breaching the UK law, but I've seen that the R18 classified videos you can now buy in adult sex shops in the UK are the same strength as the content on my websites.
The whole issue the UK govt caused before the R18 was that normal porn could "affect the mental & moral developement of minors" No one under 18yrs old can join my sites as they wouldn't have a credit card, & would it be ok to leave my preview areas as hardcore.
I really appreciate anyone's help regarding this complex issue.
dvtimes
08-17-05, 06:09 PM
Porn is legall in the uk.
As long as all people are aged 18 and older and have given consent.
Bondage in the UK is the only problem. As models must not look like they are forced to do it.
Film is the only problem you may have. As all film is suposed to go through the film sensors, but as long as you are hosting in the usa and say you uploaded it in spain, you should be ok.
To be honest i suspect that the laws in spain would be far more strickt (being a catholic country). But as we are also in the EU, a lot of laws are from the EU.
At the moment the laws are strongest on R18 porn, where the films must be sold in a sex shop.
But I suspect what you are doing in spain will be the same as in the uk.
mellenig
08-17-05, 06:20 PM
Porn is legall in the uk.
To be honest i suspect that the laws in spain would be far more strickt (being a catholic country). But as we are also in the EU, a lot of laws are from the EU.
They sell some real nasty stuff in spain not sure on the laws over there. They sell some really bad stuff in gift shops once browsing one and saw some beasty vids next to a kiddies toy section I think it was in Tenerife.
On whether you are legal or not I wouldnt take any advice from anyone on a webmaster board (no offense) but I dont think anyone is 100% sure where we stand, in doubt take proper legal advice.
scoobie
08-17-05, 06:34 PM
Hi again Guys thanks for your really quick replies,
Just to clear this up, my sites are just straight hardcore, downloadable MPG & JPG sites. The films are all xxx rated & approved by way of being commercially available in adult shops in USA/ Europe. The websites just show sliced clips from those given movies. It's not violent stuff, it's normal plani fucking & sucking.
My preview areas are hardcore as they show screen grabs from my movies that are within my members/ pay areas.
Anyone with any URL's from official/ govt sites showing legislation would really be appreciated.
Thanks XXX
mellenig
08-17-05, 06:41 PM
This is the R18 link if its any help R18 (http://www.bbfc.org.uk/Customers/guidelines/Guidelines_R18.html) you may already have read it
mOBSCENE
08-17-05, 07:13 PM
They sell hardcore mags in newsagents these days, as far as I can tell, and people I know say they have been searched at customs and allowed through with very hardcore material for resale. The R18 laws strictly apply to video/DVD, not printed materials.
As far as I'm aware, there is no legislation governing adult materials on the internet (eg the obscene publications act was written in 1959). The following article may provide some insights, and these would appear to be a legal firm reasonably in the know about such matters.
The gist is that the police could probably prosecute any of us if they wished to under a variety of pretexts, but the cases would be very risky in terms of gaining a conviction, and I'm sure the public as well as the police would rather see money spent combating cp and the like. Still, it's food for thought, but I wouldn't panic...
http://www.hamiltons-solicitors.co.uk/sexvideo.htm
Elisha Jade
08-17-05, 07:47 PM
I read an article on the metpolice site somewhere that they arent likely to prosecute anyone unless it involved cp, rape, torture, scat etc - watersports is a bit iffy
Elisha Jade
08-17-05, 07:52 PM
"In 1996 major Internet firms in the UK came together with the police to establish the Internet Watch Foundation (IWF) to act as a focus for removing illegal material from the Internet. It provides a hotline service to enable Internet users to report material they believe may be illegal. The IWF assesses the material and then notifies the service provider and the police."
From the IWF site...
The Hotline and the law
The IWF Hotline provides internet users with a means of reporting potentially illegal content that they are located on websites, newsgroups and online groups that specifically contain:
* images of child abuse* hosted anywhere in the world.
* criminally obscene content hosted in the UK.
* criminally racist content hosted in the UK.
You should make a report to us if you see something that you believe to be illegal, like child abuse images or criminally obscene and racist sites.
.....
Criminally Obscene Content
The law on obscene publications is difficult to define in everyday terms.
As a guide it could include images featuring acts of extreme sexual activity such as bestiality, necrophilia, rape or torture.
Please note we can only deal with obscene content that is physically hosted in the UK.
mellenig
08-17-05, 08:03 PM
They sell hardcore mags in newsagents these days, as far as I can tell, and people I know say they have been searched at customs and allowed through with very hardcore material for resale. The R18 laws strictly apply to video/DVD, not printed materials.
As far as I'm aware, there is no legislation governing adult materials on the internet (eg the obscene publications act was written in 1959). The following article may provide some insights, and these would appear to be a legal firm reasonably in the know about such matters.
The gist is that the police could probably prosecute any of us if they wished to under a variety of pretexts, but the cases would be very risky in terms of gaining a conviction, and I'm sure the public as well as the police would rather see money spent combating cp and the like. Still, it's food for thought, but I wouldn't panic...
http://www.hamiltons-solicitors.co.uk/sexvideo.htm
Interesting read..
The sex laws across the board in the UK (not just porn) are a really grey area. I think they all need clarifying so we know whether or not we're actually breaking any laws.
Elisha Jade
08-17-05, 08:29 PM
If they set it out in stone they wouldnt be able to catch people out
one thing to consider might be to keep your biz in Spain, if your move is just a temporary measure.
i seem to read you are feeling fine with the legal situation in Spain and you might move back there once the crisis is over, yes? most likely having your biz in Spain would only require you to be there personally a few times a year, like incorporating in Gibraltar tends to require.
have you looked into/considered that?
Elisha Jade
08-17-05, 08:43 PM
Rosie are your sites extreme? From what I read on the IWF normal hardcore / toys etc etc isnt a problem at the moment. They are after scenes of rape / torture or even fake rape where the woman has a ball in her mouth and cant speak.
Haven't we all at one time or another uploaded from the UK to our server in the US?
I have always been hosted in the USA so I have always uploaded to there. whats the problem?
Elisha Jade
08-17-05, 08:56 PM
How old is that article on hamiltons solicitors?
mOBSCENE
08-17-05, 08:59 PM
July 2003
mOBSCENE
08-17-05, 09:08 PM
Looks like some new laws may be on the way... Still note the article doesn't explain what is, and what isn't legal as of now...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4151862.stm
daveydude
08-17-05, 09:17 PM
To be safe, I'd follow the R18 guidelines and don't host in the UK.
Does anyone know of ANYONE in the UK who's been busted for running a website that didn't have blatantly illegal stuff on it?
dvtimes
08-17-05, 09:36 PM
To be safe, I'd follow the R18 guidelines and don't host in the UK.
Does anyone know of ANYONE in the UK who's been busted for running a website that didn't have blatantly illegal stuff on it?
I heard from one model that she used an pobox address for mail.
She was sent a letter asking for b/g work. It went to the wrong box, and the women who looked at it, thought it was for real boy girl work (child porn).
The police gave her a visit and charged her with obscenity.
Basically if the police know that you would not want to go to court, then they are more likely to charge you (as in the above case), as you will pleaded guilty.
The trick is what I have done and I told the police what I did. I said all my documents show the models are aged 18 or older, and I would love to go to court. They said that they had better things to do.
As for as I am aware I am doing nothing wrong, no more illegal than the chap who is a plumber or a dentist. I provide a service. I break no laws. I am not ashamed of what I do. So I have no problems going to court.
Its like I said to a policeman. You can go into Leeds in the evening and openly see people selling drugs.
dvtimes
08-17-05, 09:44 PM
To be safe, I'd follow the R18 guidelines and don't host in the UK.
Does anyone know of ANYONE in the UK who's been busted for running a website that didn't have blatantly illegal stuff on it?
I wish people would stop thinking porn was illegal in the UK.
Its not.
Host in the USA as its cheaper.
If you ever get a call from the police make sure they know that you will be happy to go to court, and you will have the full media there.
No police force is going to want to look foolish. Plus the CPS will not want to prosecute, as they only do if they have a chance of winning.
--------------
A few years back before they made r18 porn legal I knew a chap who sold pirated vhs tapes (I bet he still does).
He even advertised in most of the papers.
He had two people spend all day coping the tapes (he told me he paid them 40k a year).
They would bring a small amount each day, and he sold them at his flat.
Every 6 months he got raided. All that happened was they took the tapes away and he never got them back. He never gave a dam.
He just thought it was a joke.
mellenig
08-17-05, 09:54 PM
To be safe, I'd follow the R18 guidelines and don't host in the UK.
Does anyone know of ANYONE in the UK who's been busted for running a website that didn't have blatantly illegal stuff on it?
I've never heard of any except cp cases. The only one I know of that didn't (as I remember) involve cp was the London fireman in the 90s his sites where extreme/animal which is obviously illegal. I think his defence at the time was that the sites where US hosted so he was not liable but they proved that the point where it was uploaded was the point of publication, I think that may have been the test case for that ruling I'm not 100% sure.
Elisha Jade
08-17-05, 11:11 PM
there was a case up here in scotland.. but the reason they got her was because she was "soliciting" to her members, meeting up for sex in her house and they neighbours reported her.
To be safe, I'd follow the R18 guidelines and don't host in the UK.
If you're based in the UK, where you host doesn't matter a damn when it comes to the law.
Rosie are your sites extreme? From what I read on the IWF normal hardcore / toys etc etc isnt a problem at the moment. They are after scenes of rape / torture or even fake rape where the woman has a ball in her mouth and cant speak.
I guess it's a matter of what you class as extreme; UK Flashers certainly isn't - it's just solo girl with toys at it's strongest. Shadowslaves on the other hand is a S&M site, there's no question of rape (real or otherwise) on the site as we have no boy/girl hardcore, but certainly many of our girls are gagged and bound during SM scenes on the site. I'd guess some would consider S&M to be torture unless you're into BDSM, in which case it's just marvellous LOL
However, I suspect the new laws (or rewrites) of the laws would consider our brand of S&M to be obscene because some of the scenes are really quite heavy.
mOBSCENE
08-18-05, 01:18 AM
I guess it's a matter of what you class as extreme; UK Flashers certainly isn't - it's just solo girl with toys at it's strongest. Shadowslaves on the other hand is a S&M site, there's no question of rape (real or otherwise) on the site as we have no boy/girl hardcore, but certainly many of our girls are gagged and bound during SM scenes on the site. I'd guess some would consider S&M to be torture unless you're into BDSM, in which case it's just marvellous LOL
However, I suspect the new laws (or rewrites) of the laws would consider our brand of S&M to be obscene because some of the scenes are really quite heavy.
Some of the stuff I promote is quite heavy, but perfectly consensual rough sex, so looks like I'll have to keep my eye out for this too. All because one deranged person happened to get his kicks from strangulation, so visited some illegal sites. I guess if the next deranged person gets his kicks from Harry Potter, that will be next on the censored list?
I really hope whatever they draw up, they have the sense to make a distinction between consensual BDSM and other forms of extreme consensual sex, and the nasty stuff that really isn't consensual, I suppose we've all run across this nasty stuff one time or another. Otherwise it'll just be case of some politicians using the "protection" argument to start off a process of internet censorship and control via the backdoor. If they don't agree with x or y, they quote victim z, and state that no amount of personal freedoms are worth having victims. First ISP's agreed to block cp sites, so I assume next it will be necro sites and rape sites. Fair enough, to an extent - but where is this insidious process destined to end?
And who decides what is and what is not acceptable? Prudish people who last had a shag forty years ago, and think the Victorians got it just about right...
When do we form an industry pressure group? :gold:
dvtimes
08-18-05, 01:38 AM
And who decides what is and what is not acceptable? Prudish people who last had a shag forty years ago, and think the Victorians got it just about right...
:gold:
The Victorians were rather liberal. Drugs were easy to get, porn was also around, and we had no drink laws, or indeed any border controls.
But for my thoughts on porn: http://www.anguloa.com/porn.htm
mOBSCENE
08-18-05, 02:00 AM
Yes but the Victorians had no page 3, and it was up to the webmasters of the day to provide the seething underclasses with the porn they required. "Society" frowned on sex, at least officially (you couldn't mention sex in a polite book - that was why Dickens used so many wonderful metaphors like wooden legs and big vegetables)
However, I suspect the new laws (or rewrites) of the laws would consider our brand of S&M to be obscene because some of the scenes are really quite heavy.
That would not be a new law or a rewrite. Do you remember the "Spanner" case a few years ago?
That would not be a new law or a rewrite. Do you remember the "Spanner" case a few years ago?
No but sounds painfull
No but sounds painfull
It was :-)
Spanner Case... (http://www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk/span/sp-timel.html)
That would not be a new law or a rewrite. Do you remember the "Spanner" case a few years ago?
Who could forget the spannermen case - all of the submissives in that ring were imprissonned for aiding and abetting assaults on themselves - bizarre to the extreme.
From what I recall BDSM has been clarified a little by case law - if you leave marks that last for more than 2-3 days (what they class as transitory marks) then you can be arrested.
As from next week every time I have sex with my husband Mr.Blair will be sitting on our headboard to make sure we're only doing things the law will approve of :)
No but sounds painfull
Interesting trivia. The Spanner Men case was so called because the cop who had to watch the movies of heavy gay S&M said it made his nuts tighten :mcdonalds
To be safe, I'd follow the R18 guidelines and don't host in the UK.
Does anyone know of ANYONE in the UK who's been busted for running a website that didn't have blatantly illegal stuff on it?
The people who ran the Devon Girls website were busted big time - but that was rather a nasty squicky scat site
I guess if the next deranged person gets his kicks from Harry Potter, that will be next on the censored list?
Bugger, you're right - as a deranged person who loves Harry Potter I guess I should be worried ;)
I really hope whatever they draw up, they have the sense to make a distinction between consensual BDSM and other forms of extreme consensual sex, and the nasty stuff that really isn't consensual, I suppose we've all run across this nasty stuff one time or another. Otherwise it'll just be case of some politicians using the "protection" argument to start off a process of internet censorship and control via the backdoor. If they don't agree with x or y, they quote victim z, and state that no amount of personal freedoms are worth having victims. First ISP's agreed to block cp sites, so I assume next it will be necro sites and rape sites. Fair enough, to an extent - but where is this insidious process destined to end?
And who decides what is and what is not acceptable? Prudish people who last had a shag forty years ago, and think the Victorians got it just about right...
When do we form an industry pressure group? :gold:
I suspect this might be one to take up with SM Pride. I don't think that general consensual BDSM is the intended target of this law, but it's only got to take one over zealous copper who thinks BDSM is a bit sick and at the very least we'll be raided and all of our computers and content taken away - which will make it impossible for us to keep the site working.
In short I don't think we're the intended targets, but I do see someone from the UK BDSM scene having to be the test case. And I for one hope it's not me!
mellenig
08-18-05, 03:07 PM
Interesting trivia. The Spanner Men case was so called because the cop who had to watch the movies of heavy gay S&M said it made his nuts tighten :mcdonalds
:takethat:
Shandy McAndy
08-19-05, 11:06 AM
Interesting trivia. The Spanner Men case was so called because the cop who had to watch the movies of heavy gay S&M said it made his nuts tighten :mcdonalds
Yowzers :takethat:
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