Global warming, it's official

[wankmaster]

Looks like they have brought out some report or other now that says it's 99% sure that the global warming is caused by humans and that we all need to start riding bikes and putting leftovers into wheely bins or something, and pay more tax when we go on holiday or fill up the car.

Even if we do all this, it puts back the date for the temperature rise by a few years, and it will happen anyway. There is no longer any debate, and we all have to "save the planet".

I think this is a load of old cock. For one, all this "going green" will set back the world economy, and the money we should be spending on relocating people and dealing with the inevitable will have been wasted on these tossy new agencies for "carbon offsetting". For another, they cannot predict the weather tomorrow, let alone in 50 years time.

We are about 10 years from commmercial fusion power ( using electrostatic containment rather than the half brained magnetic containment ). Fusion power would solve all these problems at a stroke. Limtless almost free power, desalination plants to irrigate the desert, no greenhouse gasses, recoverability of the Brazillian oil fields and the Canadian ones ( at least 10 times more oil than the current Saudi reserves ). The cost of developing fusion power in the next 10 years would be about $200million.

Instead we're going to be riding bikes and taking holidays in Skegness. I think it's really cos some people like to feel guilty and to suffer. It's a limp wristed liberal thing, to sort of pay back for colonialism or some such. I don't think it's rooted in any common sense.

[urb]

Instead we're going to be riding bikes and taking holidays in Skegness.
Problem is.... if the predicted sea level increase happens there will not be a Skegness to ride your bike to.

http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=53.1072,0.4312&z=8

:(

[Merlin]

Although I don't totally agree with your argument I do agree that fusion power is the ultimate answer - plus a bit of solar, wind and wavepower where this is appropriate. I believe this not so much because it'll solve the global warming thing - which it will - but rather because it would free us of the need to use oil.

The political payback of not having the world's most important energy resource stuck in the mad house that is the middle east would be great.

[wankmaster]

Problem is.... if the predicted sea level increase happens there will not be a Skegness to ride your bike to.

http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=53.1072,0.4312&z=8

:(

No I had enuff of Skeggy as a kid, I'd not miss it.

Funny tho, I heared Attinborough was on the radio whining on about how Norfolk would soon be under water, then I found a link to a geological site that stated that Norfolk has been rising at a faster rate than the sea for many hundreds of years and will continue to do so. Something about plates pushing against eachother.

We should employ technology to solve this problem, but science has been demonized as the cause.

[wankmaster]

Although I don't totally agree with your argument I do agree that fusion power is the ultimate answer - plus a bit of solar, wind and wavepower where this is appropriate. I believe this not so much because it'll solve the global warming thing - which it will - but rather because it would free us of the need to use oil.

The political payback of not having the world's most important energy resource stuck in the mad house that is the middle east would be great.

If you develop fusion power you don't need anything else. It runs on water and is as close to free enegy as you can get.

Here's a talk by Robert Bussard, it's an hour and a half and heavy going if you don't have a science background, but his conclusions are amazing. Fusion power would solve all these problems at a stroke.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1996321846673788606

[daveydude]

"Going green" is going to create massive business for companies involved in converting industry to cleaner fuels, producing & installing solar panels, wind farms etc. The world economy will change for sure, but aren't successful businesses meant to move with the times? All the major car manufacturers are sinking R&D money into clean burning engines - the switch will happen as soon as it's no longer financially viable to continue with petroleum based products. Hopefully that won't be after large areas of the planet become unlivable for millions of people.

[wankmaster]

"Going green" is going to create massive business for companies involved in converting industry to cleaner fuels, producing & installing solar panels, wind farms etc.

Isn't there a joke about two blondes?

Two blondes are out on the high street. One is digging a hole, the other fills it in after her. When asked what they are doing one says, we are planting trees, but the girl who puts the tree in the hole is off sick.

Point is yes, you can create industries, and create jobs doing pointless stuff, but it's better to create jobs doing stuff we actually need.

[urb]

Here's a talk by Robert Bussard, it's an hour and a half and heavy going if you don't have a science background, but his conclusions are amazing. Fusion power would solve all these problems at a stroke.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1996321846673788606

Never even heard of fusion power until now. :)

[wankmaster]

Never even heard of fusion power until now. :)

It's the thing what the sun runs on. ( not the newspaper, but that big yellow thing in the sky ).

;-)

[ciggiez]

I was watching National Geographic channel last night (I don't get much choice in channels over here) and they said that each cow damages the atmosphere 10 times as much as every car does because they fart so much.

So let's eat them all today and then the problem will be solved for good!

[daveydude]

Isn't there a joke about two blondes?

Two blondes are out on the high street. One is digging a hole, the other fills it in after her. When asked what they are doing one says, we are planting trees, but the girl who puts the tree in the hole is off sick.

Point is yes, you can create industries, and create jobs doing pointless stuff, but it's better to create jobs doing stuff we actually need.

Isn't porn pointless in the great scheme of things? The point is, bottom line, it generates revenue and fuels the economy. How is making money from "green" energy different to making money from fossil fuels?

[wankmaster]

Of course you can have some service and information industries. At the end of the day tho, if your economy consists entirely of people "opening doors for one another" eventually that rolling ball of shit will stop rolling.

There must be a backbone of "making stuff", it's called manufacturing. We can't all be working in shops selling stuff to other people working in shops.

[Merlin]

Of course you can have some service and information industries. At the end of the day tho, if your economy consists entirely of people "opening doors for one another" eventually that rolling ball of shit will stop rolling.

There must be a backbone of "making stuff", it's called manufacturing. We can't all be working in shops selling stuff to other people working in shops.

Sorry but you are sooo wrong.

The "stuff" you refer to can be ideas and services. There was a really interesting documentary the other week which asked the question: where does Britains wealth come from? We don't make much anymore but we're relatively rich and the economy is doing quite well compared to other EU countries. It turns out that it's because Britain sells a lot of the soft "stuff" - financial services, know how, ideas, software etc etc.

[Merlin]

If you develop fusion power you don't need anything else. It runs on water and is as close to free enegy as you can get.

Here's a talk by Robert Bussard, it's an hour and a half and heavy going if you don't have a science background, but his conclusions are amazing. Fusion power would solve all these problems at a stroke.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1996321846673788606

Yeah, yeah I hear you. I agree fusion power would be great. Pity the next generation of research will be in France and not in the UK like it has been for the past 50 years.

[pleasureville]

Solar power runs alot of stuff these days..
You can get a load of solar panels that heat your water and electric.. im amazed america havnt gone there yet with the whole houses and building in solar.. I suppose it would stop a lot of cash flow for the country though..
Proves the goverment are affraid of the damage but they still are trying to get something that they can make money out of...
Gas on cars instead of useing waste or something.. thats been done before also.

[daveydude]

I don't know if it's bullshit or not, but I read somewhere that George W Bush's ranch in Texas is powered by geothermal energy. Irony?

[New Blue]

I was watching National Geographic channel last night (I don't get much choice in channels over here) and they said that each cow damages the atmosphere 10 times as much as every car does because they fart so much.

So let's eat them all today and then the problem will be solved for good!

I probably cause more damage to the atmosphere than the average cow then, especially after that Indian takeaway I had last night. :blush:

Kind regards.

Blue

http://www.newblueproductions.com
enquiry@brothersblue.com
MSN: newblueproductions@hotmail.co.uk
ICQ: 74-105-185
Or leave a message on my forum.

For the best Adult Website Links, go to http://www.rudehousewives.com or http://www.ukpornlinks.com

Here's a new teaser trailer for Rock Charogne's excellent up-coming UKPORNCHIX.COM website, showing just a few of the faces that will be appearing on it.
http://www.brothersblue.com/newtrailer.wmv

[Bernadette]

The worlds been around for all these billions of years. We have 10 hot years and everyone puts it down to us/global warming. changes in tempreture isnt unusual and if we had 1000 years of scourching hot weather that killed all the humans it would still only be a nano second in real terms for the history of the earth

[wankmaster]

Sorry but you are sooo wrong.

The "stuff" you refer to can be ideas and services. There was a really interesting documentary the other week which asked the question: where does Britains wealth come from? We don't make much anymore but we're relatively rich and the economy is doing quite well compared to other EU countries. It turns out that it's because Britain sells a lot of the soft "stuff" - financial services, know how, ideas, software etc etc.

Well, won't be long before everyone else learns how to do these things. None of it is rocket science. Luckily tho, most people have bought into this "financial services myth", and we can sneak along a few more years living in increasing debt, with inflated house prices, producing little of real value. The shit will hit the fan at some point in the next ten years in my opinion.

But then you know what they say about opinions, everyone has got one.

[pleasureville]

Truthfully what are our children or grandchildren going to do..
Will they make the planet on platforms or will they dig and make higher ground..
What will happen in 100 plus yrs..

[strictlybroadband]

[QUOTE=wankmaster
I think this is a load of old cock. For one, all this "going green" will set back the world economy, and the money we should be spending on relocating people and dealing with the inevitable will have been wasted on these tossy new agencies for "carbon offsetting". For another, they cannot predict the weather tomorrow, let alone in 50 years time.[/QUOTE]

You need to do some reading. It's not about "predicting the weather", it's about predicting the global climate. One of the reasons they are so sure about this is that projections made in the 1980s have turned out to be right. Not only that, but in the last couple of years, the warming has accelerated.

To say that reducing oil usage will damage the economy is hilarious. The reason that everyone (except the oil industry) is so scared is that there won't BE an economy if the projections turn out to the right.

[strictlybroadband]

Although I don't totally agree with your argument I do agree that fusion power is the ultimate answer

Fusion power is about a century away, if it ever works at all. It's time to dstop using oil and gas TODAY. Your great-great-grandchildren might have the benefit of nuclear fusion.

[strictlybroadband]

If you develop fusion power you don't need anything else. It runs on water and is as close to free enegy as you can get.

Oh yeah - and don't forget it doesn't work.

[strictlybroadband]

The worlds been around for all these billions of years. We have 10 hot years and everyone puts it down to us/global warming. changes in tempreture isnt unusual and if we had 1000 years of scourching hot weather that killed all the humans it would still only be a nano second in real terms for the history of the earth

You don't understand what you're talking about. The climate's changing faster than is has done in over 60 million years. Human's have been around for a fraction of that time. Humans have never experienced any change on this scale. Want to sit and wait to see what happens?

[wankmaster]

Fusion power is about a century away, if it ever works at all. It's time to dstop using oil and gas TODAY. Your great-great-grandchildren might have the benefit of nuclear fusion.

I don't know where you get your facts from about fusion power being a century away.

There was one of the scientists from JET on the radio last week, he reconed about 50 years was realistic. Using the magnetic containment model this may well be right, but if you look at the electrostatic containment model then we could have commercial fusion in ten years time. The physics works, it's now an engineering problem ( electrostatic containment that is ).

We should put the money into solving these problems through technology rather than riding bikes and recycling bottle tops.

Take a few minutes to read this

http://www.science.edu/TechoftheYear/TechoftheYear.htm

[wankmaster]

You need to do some reading. It's not about "predicting the weather", it's about predicting the global climate.


I do a lot of reading already thanks.

Predicting the weather, or predicting the climate change both rely on modelling. They build models of climate systems based on blocks of air, and water. In theory the smaller the blocks, the more accurate the predictions. More blocks require more computing power.

In all these models there are "fudge factors". You keep changing the fudge factor til it agrees with your data. Then you let it run a while and see if it is accurate. Problem is tho, it's only a model, and the fudge factors are all important. It's extreamly easy to make a model that predicts well, but that doesn't mean it will continue to predict well in a few years time ( say 5 or 10 years ). The scientist will then apply new fudge factors.

I've developed a few statistical models ( not of climate ) in my time, and I know how easy it is to fool yourself into thinking you've got it right.

I am reminded of the Club of Rome report back in the 70s when we were told by scientists that oil would run out in 10 years time, there would be drought, starvation etc all over the world by the end of the century. Never happened.

Then again, we have much cleverer scientists now who realy do know of which they speak don't we?

[strictlybroadband]

I don't know where you get your facts from about fusion power being a century away.

There was one of the scientists from JET on the radio last week, he reconed about 50 years was realistic.

I've heard that figure. And having managed software projects for years I never believe time estimates from geeks. I also remember that nuclear fusion was going to be the solution to all of our problems back in the 1970s oil crisis. Fusion is pie-in-the-sky technology. It's theoretically feasible, but nobody knows when (or if) it will ever generate significant amounts of electricity. I hope it comes to fruition, but don't hold your breath.

We'll be pretty fucked in 50 years anyway, even if it does happen - the latest projection in the IPCC report is there there will be no Arctic ice cap left by then. Most cities near the coast will be shrinking, and there will be hundreds times the number of refugees that there are today. Now THAT's an economic crisis we've never seen before in history.

The oil industry could and should pay for a lot of the new technology investment. The action should have begun after Kyoto in 1990, but the industry has deliberately confused and obfuscated the issue to make people think that climate change isn't really happening or serious. So the debate has started 17 years too late - and the actions to be taken now are much more drastic than they would have been then.

[wankmaster]

I've heard that figure. And having managed software projects for years I never believe time estimates from geeks.
I also remember that nuclear fusion was going to be the solution to all of our problems back in the 1970s oil crisis. Fusion is pie-in-the-sky technology. It's theoretically feasible, but nobody knows when (or if) it will ever generate significant amounts of electricity. I hope it comes to fruition, but don't hold your breath.


Did you read this then?

http://www.science.edu/TechoftheYear/TechoftheYear.htm

And why do you believe the geeks when they say we're all doomed?

Oh and I've managed a few software projects ( I did it for three years ). They all went smoothly without overruns except where the customer changed the spec, in which case they were reestimated. These were small 2-4 person jobs.

I've also worked on big projects, like 200 man years, as a contractor, these all failed.

If you look at the Bussard project it was kept pretty small, and his results are amazing. I'd say it's worth $200m to see if he's right.

[strictlybroadband]

Did you read this then?

http://www.science.edu/TechoftheYear/TechoftheYear.htm


Yes, I'm a great fan of nuclear fusion and agree it should get investment. It's just not going to generate large-scale power in our lifetime, so it's irrelevant to the current issue. As a geek myself, I've been waiting for fusion to show up ever since we were promised it in the 70s. So far, there has been no practical success in this area.


And why do you believe the geeks when they say we're all doomed?


Not some geeks: all geeks. All independently funded studies for years have come to the same conclusion.

I suppose you're still keeping an open mind as to whether the world is round or flat? Or do you agree with the geeks?


Oh and I've managed a few software projects ( I did it for three years ). They all went smoothly without overruns except where the customer changed the spec, in which case they were reestimated. These were small 2-4 person jobs.

I've also worked on big projects, like 200 man years, as a contractor, these all failed.

If you look at the Bussard project it was kept pretty small, and his results are amazing. I'd say it's worth $200m to see if he's right.

Agree - but it's very much a side-issue to reducing next year's carbon emissions, and the oil industry needs to be confronted today, not in a century when fusion stations are up and running globally.

[AllRuth]

Looks like they have brought out some report or other now that says it's 99% sure that the global warming is caused by humans and that we all need to start riding bikes and putting leftovers into wheely bins or something, and pay more tax when we go on holiday or fill up the car.

The IPCC report itself is a big joke. Why couldn't we have lent this report out to some "actual" scientists to do?

[strictlybroadband]

The IPCC report itself is a big joke. Why couldn't we have lent this report out to some "actual" scientists to do?

Why is it a "big joke" Ruth? And what problems do you have with the credentials of the hundreds of scientists involved?

[AllRuth]

Why is it a "big joke" Ruth? And what problems do you have with the credentials of the hundreds of scientists involved?
Hundreds or scientists; well.. they claimed more like 2500 scientists didn't they? Still, if you look into it, the report was put together by 30 or so UN politico types.

To be honest; I don't know what I think about the whole global warming issue. I've tried to read up time and time again; after watching some programme about sunspot activity when I was in my early teens. I increasingly struggle to get beyond the media's sensationalist 'let's save the planet' hooey; to any real information. All reporting is with total bias or at the very least complete laziness. That IPCC report is as lazy as the western press - officials get to use the report to advance policy agenda. I mean; if you look into the report it says that there's around a 90% chance that the warming that we've seen in the last 50 years is down to man. Yet we don't get told where the number come from; how it was derived etc. The whole report is biased from the onset. Look at this pretty graph or two - global warming is manmade; case closed. Well where's the minority report? There is a lot of good; interesting science; based on valid data that is being put together by real scientists that don't get a look in in this report. Again; I'm not saying that they're right and the IPCC is necessarily wrong. But for $18mil they could have included it. It's really easy to argue that us humans control the climate, if you take nature out of the equation entirely. That is what the IPCC does, and it's really good advocacy; It's just poor science.

(Hmmm... I didn't mean to write this much. Oopsie.)

[wankmaster]

Yes, I'm a great fan of nuclear fusion and agree it should get investment. It's just not going to generate large-scale power in our lifetime, so it's irrelevant to the current issue. As a geek myself, I've been waiting for fusion to show up ever since we were promised it in the 70s. So far, there has been no practical success in this area.


I know it's a long video, but the Bussard google lecture actually tells you about the success he's had so far. The physics is all done, it's now down to engineering. The reason tokamaks don't work, and are unlikely to ever work is sumed up by Bussard when he says something like, "Look up in the sky and you see millions of fusion reactors, not one of them is doenut shaped". Electrostatic containment creates a spherical plasma, which means you can make a very small reactor ( 1m to 2m diameter ). A tokamak needs to be the size of a large room due to the problem of creating magnetic fields to contain a plasma in a doenut shape. i.e. it's a lot easier to compress something down to a point than to thin torus.

The problems with fusion are all political. Having poured billions into JET, there would be a few red faces if the equivalent of garage science solves the problem. This is how science works in the real world, and the reason I quit research myself after a short time. I found it a nest of "who you know" and "who owes you one" and "how do we get a grant for it?" type stuff. All very saddening.

[wankmaster]

Hundreds or scientists; well.. they claimed more like 2500 scientists didn't they? Still, if you look into it, the report was put together by 30 or so UN politico types.


Yes, well put. I'm not 100% sure that global warming is not man made, but I'm suspicious that the debate has effectivly been closed by the media. There was a report on the good old BBC a few days ago about some island in India that was there a few years ago, but has now totally submerged. Now it must have been a damn pancake of an island to get coved that quick by rising sea levels, more likely the thing was sinking anyway, but the way they dressed it up with all the doomsday sad music there was no doubt it was global warming what done it.

If anyone wants to read about the scientists who do not accept the "concensus view" here's a good start.

http://www.junkscience.com/

Sadly tho as with many things, the debate is over and we'd better get used to paying more taxes for "green issues".

[xcite-tv]

You don't understand what you're talking about. The climate's changing faster than is has done in over 60 million years.

Can you show us a link or anything to some facts regarding this ????

I was listening to a guy on Radio 4 from a US scientific research university who said he could quote 100 actual scientific studies and has heard of another 300 similar studies that have taken deep test bores all over the globe which prove that our planet has a regular cycle of heating up and cooling down every 1500 years. (trying to find some link to this)

Others say that methane is by far a bigger threat to global warming than Co2 gasses

problem is , today its fashionable to jump on the bandwagon and blame Co2 and the car, plane whatever, whatever.. or rather its become very UNFASHIONBLE not to blame the car, plane whatever.

[AllRuth]

Can you show us a link or anything to some facts regarding this ????

I was listening to a guy on Radio 4 from a US scientific research university who said he could quote 100 actual scientific studies and has heard of another 300 similar studies that have taken deep test bores all over the globe which prove that our planet has a regular cycle of heating up and cooling down every 1500 years. (trying to find some link to this)

Others say that methane is by far a bigger threat to global warming than Co2 gasses

problem is , today its fashionable to jump on the bandwagon and blame Co2 and the car, plane whatever, whatever.. or rather its become very UNFASHIONBLE not to blame the car, plane whatever.

Yeah completely... there was the Medieval warm period for one... that was around the time of the Vikings if I remember right... not quite 60 million years ago.

[wankmaster]

Once you start to look into the issue you see all sorts of cracks in the data. I guess they hope that people are to lazy to read up on this for themselves. Sadly, I think they powers that be are correct in this assumption.

[strictlybroadband]

Hundreds or scientists; well.. they claimed more like 2500 scientists didn't they? Still, if you look into it, the report was put together by 30 or so UN politico types

That's right, 2,500 of the world's climate experts agree that climate change is real, man-made and getting worse. The 30 or so "politico types" are editors, and not politicians.

There is not a single independent climate scientist who disagrees with the report. The oil industry, of course, has promised money to scientists who question it, as they have done for the past 20 or so years.

The oil industry has created one of the world's most popular conspiracy theories: the idea that someone, somewhere is benefitting from this climate change idea. Nobody benefits from cutting CO2 emissions, but the oil industry loses out, and that's why they continue to muddy the water. Even Bush, arch oilman, has accepted the danger of climate change, although of course he's trying to claim that there are alternatives to cutting oil and gas use.

It's understandable that people don't want to give up their cars or air travel. While I gave up my car a few years ago, that was to improve my lifestyle rather than primarily for green reasons. And since I fly around once a month, I'm hardly a great example of greenness in action. But you're confusing what is true, and what you WANT to be true. it would be nice to keep burning oil till it runs out, but we can't, and the only people who benefit from us doing it are the oil companies.

The original, conservative projections thought that the world would warm abour 2C this century. Now the projection is 4C. This doesn't mean the end of the planet, but probably the extinction of most life on it, including probably us. We'll all be dead by the end of the century anyway, so maybe it doesn't matter what we leave behind, but we'll see things start to break earlier than 2100.

[strictlybroadband]

Can you show us a link or anything to some facts regarding this ????


As so many denialists continually point out, the climate is always changing, and always has been. But normally this happens very slowly - the only reason for the climate to change quickly is when a catastrophic event happens. The last time the climate changed this rapidly was about 65,000,000 years ago, when a massive asteroid hit the Gulf of Mexico and threw up an enormous amount of dust. The resulting climate change wiped out the majority of life on the planet, including most famously the dinosaurs. This was good news for mammals, which went on to become the dominant animals on the planet and led to the evolution of us.

http://www.nmnh.si.edu/paleo/blast/

The burning of so much coal, oil and gas in the past 200 years might seem slow to us short-lived beings, but it's a fast and catastrophic event. The carbon in fossil fuels took millions of years to lay down, and only a couple of centuries to put back into the atmosphere - we're reversing what nature did but much faster. Humans have never experienced anything like this before. We've only been on the planet about 4,000,000 years and only began forming civlisations about 12,000 years ago, so this is entirely new for our species.

[strictlybroadband]

Once you start to look into the issue you see all sorts of cracks in the data. I guess they hope that people are to lazy to read up on this for themselves. Sadly, I think they powers that be are correct in this assumption.

That's all good conspiracy theory stuff, but the reality is the opposite - the "powers that be" have been dragging their heels on accepting climate change, not trying to worry people about it. The car, road and oil industries are immensely powerful, and they've bribed and threatened politicians to stay quiet on this issue since the facts have been known, which is now almost 20 years.

[pleasureville]

Yes, I'm a great fan of nuclear fusion and agree it should get investment. It's just not going to generate large-scale power in our lifetime, so it's irrelevant to the current issue. As a geek myself, I've been waiting for fusion to show up ever since we were promised it in the 70s. So far, there has been no practical success in this area.



Not some geeks: all geeks. All independently funded studies for years have come to the same conclusion.

I suppose you're still keeping an open mind as to whether the world is round or flat? Or do you agree with the geeks?



Agree - but it's very much a side-issue to reducing next year's carbon emissions, and the oil industry needs to be confronted today, not in a century when fusion stations are up and running globally.
Jerry... fairplay.. your not just a pretty face..
Do you do anything for the system.. We always leave a light on overnight... its naughty, as so many people do.. if we were to all turn our lights off at night and the city.. look at the huge buildings with lights on.. could it make a difference? A whole wold working together?

[wankmaster]

They also have global warming on Mars.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=edae9952-3c3e-47ba-913f-7359a5c7f723&k=0

I guess the Martians need to cut down on the use of their 4x4s.

[strictlybroadband]

Jerry... fairplay.. your not just a pretty face..


:blush:

I'm no green puritan. as I said above. I don't have a car but that was basically cos I got sick of commuting round the M25 on a daily basis. I mostly travel by bike, but that's because I love cycling, and it keeps me fit. But then I blow it all by flying around Europe on a regular basis. I'm glad I've weaned myself off the car, because like it or not, driving is gonna get very expensive in the next few years.

Try turning down the heating a notch. Then if you and Natalie are cold, invite someone else to join you in bed. :devil:

[pleasureville]

:blush:

I'm no green puritan. as I said above. I don't have a car but that was basically cos I got sick of commuting round the M25 on a daily basis. I mostly travel by bike, but that's because I love cycling, and it keeps me fit. But then I blow it all by flying around Europe on a regular basis. I'm glad I've weaned myself off the car, because like it or not, driving is gonna get very expensive in the next few years.

Try turning down the heating a notch. Then if you and Natalie are cold, invite someone else to join you in bed. :devil:
We do like our home very warm... You naughty devil you!
Dont you think Natalie gets a little too much cock... Because we film everyother day.. sometimes it takes its toll.. but I suppose thats part of the business... We knew it was going to be hard but fun!
You are most certainly welcome for a drink anytime though..
Oh .. dont forget to send that agreement. xxx

[slaxxx]

The reason individual people won't try to stop global warming is because the idea is marketed incorrectly- no one wants to be a turtleneck-wearing, latte-drinking neo-hippie except the people who already are. And that's the kind of person who gives a shit about all this a century ahead of time.

It's hard to deny that the world really is getting a smidgeon warmer, and it's at least somewhat caused by humans. But whether or not you drive a car, or you take the bus instead of driving, etc. is pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things. The rapid economic growth of India, China, and other emerging markets, with new factories and power plants being built, and more people demanding more energy, is the real issue.

I don't actually think the world is going to be underwater within the century or that humans will completely die. I also don't think we will still be dependent on oil in 40-50 years. That is an eternity in science, and I'm sure we will come up with cheaper ways of getting hydrogen (rather than just get it from natural gas which would still make us dependent on fossil fuels). Solar technology is only going to get better and the cost will come down. Or there might be some other, completely different energy source, I don't know...no one really does.

But it's being an alarmist to say that things will only get worse and ignore all the things that could dramatically change from the status quo in the next century.

[xcite-tv]

85% of scientists work for governments or big corporations.

our planet is changing in many, many ways and global warming is just one of them !

The threat of global warming on this planet is way down the list IMHO of the biggest threats we face.

the causes of global warming are many and varied. My problem is people who blame the car etc for it.

[daveydude]

85% of scientists work for governments or big corporations.

our planet is changing in many, many ways and global warming is just one of them !

The threat of global warming on this planet is way down the list IMHO of the biggest threats we face.

the causes of global warming are many and varied. My problem is people who blame the car etc for it.

Interesting opinion. What do you consider the other larger threats to be?

[wankmaster]

That's all good conspiracy theory stuff, but the reality is the opposite - the "powers that be" have been dragging their heels on accepting climate change, not trying to worry people about it. The car, road and oil industries are immensely powerful, and they've bribed and threatened politicians to stay quiet on this issue since the facts have been known, which is now almost 20 years.

The modern car has become so reliable that it's pretty much a fashion item. I tend to buy a new car, run it 'til it is not economic to repair, scrap it and go buy a new one. Most people are more interested in "having a new car", for whatever reason. This is now running out of steam, with so many cheap second hand cars about, they need to think up new ways to make folk buy a new one.

"Hey!", says some bright spark, "make em all buy a totally new type of car, with a hybrid engine, that costs a lot of money and needs specialists to repair."

Good thinking, get em on the guilt trip, and then in 10 years time when it all turns out to be rubbish, sell 'em fast new petrol cars. How can you argue with that? Good for the environment, produces jobs ( that old chestnut ), and brings in tax revenue. Eveyone's a winner.

[spann0]

global warming has nothing to do with cars and fossils fuel
its actually the trees that are causing it!

There is no need for panick the americans are just minutes away from a tree destroying death ray they will fire it from space and save the planet

fools!

[wankmaster]

global warming has nothing to do with cars and fossils fuel
its actually the trees that are causing it!

There is no need for panick the americans are just minutes away from a tree destroying death ray they will fire it from space and save the planet

fools!

The warming is caused by the sun. What a surprise. There has been a rise in CO2, so they put two and two together and say that one has caused the other.

I've yet to see an explination as to why there is global warming on Mars at exactly the same time as earth. ( Hint: It could be something to do with the sun ).

[spann0]

The warming is caused by the sun. What a surprise. There has been a rise in CO2, so they put two and two together and say that one has caused the other.

I've yet to see an explination as to why there is global warming on Mars at exactly the same time as earth. ( Hint: It could be something to do with the sun ).

no its the trees dickhead

[wankmaster]

no its the trees dickhead


Oh yes, the trees on Mars. Of course.

[xcite-tv]

Interesting opinion. What do you consider the other larger threats to be?

Bush. Blair (and his successor) Religion. and the changing polarity of the earth. oh and China

[Simon]

Interesting opinion. What do you consider the other larger threats to be?Cows.

They chuck out methane in vast quantities, and its the worst gas for the green house effect.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/662397.stm

[xcite-tv]

Cows.

They chuck out methane in vast quantities, and its the worst gas for the green house effect.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/662397.stm

Damn i forgot cows

[Merlin]

Cows.

They chuck out methane in vast quantities, and its the worst gas for the green house effect.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/662397.stm

Eureka!! There's the answer! Every cow should have a balloon attached to its bum to collect the methane which can then be used fo heating, cooking etc. The balloons would need to be emptied regularly to stop the cows floating off but that could happen when they came in for milking.

Right, that's global warming fixed. NEXT!!!!!

[strictlybroadband]

the causes of global warming are many and varied. My problem is people who blame the car etc for it.

Yeah, but that's because you drive a gas guzzler, and unlike SGS who is a Thatcherite eco-vandal and proud of it, you feel guilty and would rather we all shut up about it. ;)

[wankmaster]

I spent a couple of months in New Zeland recently. It was their summer. Christmas day we tried to eat outdoors, sat in thick coats with a gas fire to warm us. We had one good sunny day the whole time I was there, the rest it pissed down and if there was any sun there was also a biting wind to go with it. They had snow in Australia on boxing day.

The global warming apologists say "some areas will get colder cos of the warming". Err, yeah OK, so we have winners and losers. Some areas of the world will benifit, like not so many old people will drop dead in the freezing Uk winters. We can grow better crops, and we use much less fuel heating our houses. Do these reports of doom take into account the plus side of warming?

Warming has happened before

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_warm_period

But this is what the IPCC says to refute it.

"However, this view has been questioned; the 2001 IPCC report summarises this research, saying "…current evidence does not support globally synchronous periods of anomalous cold or warmth over this time frame, and the conventional terms of 'Little Ice Age' and 'Medieval Warm Period' appear to have limited utility in describing trends in hemispheric or global mean temperature changes in past centuries".

So they are saying that some places got hotter and some colder, so that was not "global warming". Well that exactly like today isn't it?

[Simon]

Yeah, but that's because you drive a gas guzzler, and unlike SGS who is a Thatcherite eco-vandal and proud of it, you feel guilty and would rather we all shut up about it. ;)Hey! Count me in with the Thatcherite eco-vandals. I've never been so insulted.... :)

[strictlybroadband]

Hey! Count me in with the Thatcherite eco-vandals. I've never been so insulted.... :)

Stand up and be counted!

BTW there's a funny column called "Greener than Thou" in the Guardian each Saturday, which takes the piss out of the guilty green North-London set.

http://environment.guardian.co.uk/ethicalliving/story/0,,1999871,00.html

[wankmaster]

I must start buying the Guardian.

[Simon]

Yup, I love all those MPs who ride bikes to work for the photo opportunities but send the bikes home by taxi when they get too pissed to ride.

[strictlybroadband]

So they are saying that some places got hotter and some colder, so that was not "global warming". Well that exactly like today isn't it?

Some on, you're smarter than that. The average temperature across the global is going up by a fraction of a degree each year - nobody disputes that the climate in a particular spot can swing by much more than that from year to year, so of course the weather gets colder as well as warmer in any one place.

FYI I heard on the radio this morning (Radio 4, what else?) that the warming between 1970 and now is almost as much as the warming from the end of the last ice age till 1970. Nobody's disputing that the climate always changes - but it doesn't change this fast on its own.

[strictlybroadband]

I must start buying the Guardian.

Go for it - it also includes columns by George Monbiot, who (unusual for a journalist) actually understands the science.

And it's a handy size to stick in the pocket on the back of cycling jackets.

[wankmaster]

Although I think all the global warming stuff is a load of bollocks, and it will be shown to be so in time, if the government are determined to "do something about it", they should actually do something. Like put petrol up by 100% would be a good start. I can't see this happening as altho people want to "do something about it", they don't want to do anything to drastic.

Green wheely bins are the limit.

[wankmaster]

Go for it - it also includes columns by George Monbiot, who (unusual for a journalist) actually understands the science.

And it's a handy size to stick in the pocket on the back of cycling jackets.

I shall soon be moving to London, so I guess I'd better get ready for the shock. I will then get rid of my car as I will not need it ( my sister already has three so I can borrow one of them ). I will also consider talking her into getting a bike so I get some excercise as I cycle down to Tescos.

I am wondering about those lycra shorts, have the gone out of fashion yet?

[strictlybroadband]

Although I think all the global warming stuff is a load of bollocks, and it will be shown to be so in time

Yeah - it'll be disproved along with evolution and gravity.

[strictlybroadband]

I shall soon be moving to London, so I guess I'd better get ready for the shock. I will then get rid of my car as I will not need it ( my sister already has three so I can borrow one of them ). I will also consider talking her into getting a bike so I get some excercise as I cycle down to Tescos.

I am wondering about those lycra shorts, have the gone out of fashion yet?

Cycle to Tescos? When you can nip down to Portobello Rd or Borough Market and shop ethically? Shame on you! :)

Where in London?

Lycra shorts are for a certain type of cyclist. You need a good bulge up-front to pull it off.

[wankmaster]

I will be living in Forrest Hill, it's not a bad little area, quite a few parks and stuff.

[strictlybroadband]

I will be living in Forrest Hill, it's not a bad little area, quite a few parks and stuff.

That's saaf-east London. There's a good farmers market in Peckham I'm told (not that I go south of the river if I can avoid it).

[daveydude]

Bush. Blair (and his successor) Religion. and the changing polarity of the earth. oh and China

We could debate all year about the relative threats to humanity, but I agree that US foreign policy is heading us down a very dangerous path.

Religion is a real fucking mess as well. I wish people would stop basing their lives around ancient literature, or at the very least stop taking it so literally.

[SGS]

Religion is a real fucking mess as well. I wish people would stop basing their lives around ancient literature, or at the very least stop taking it so literally.

What else do stupid people have to fill their day with?

[strictlybroadband]

What else do stupid people have to fill their day with?

Opium should be the opium of the masses.

[SGS]

Opium should be the opium of the masses.

:)

[Damian]

What else do stupid people have to fill their day with?


Trisha, scratch cards and working out how much of the Christmas Club money then can pilfer to go the the new super casino in Manc.

[SGS]

Trisha, scratch cards and working out how much of the Christmas Club money then can pilfer to go the the new super casino in Manc.

And their hamper money this year too. :)

[Simon]

What else do stupid people have to fill their day with?Porn.

[xcite-tv]

working out how much of the Christmas Club money then can pilfer to go the the new super casino in Manc.

They dont even need to do that now as the companies that run them fuck off with the cash instead

[spann0]

we need to get rid of all the trees and coat the earths surface in mirrors to reflect the heat

[strictlybroadband]

we need to get rid of all the trees and coat the earths surface in mirrors to reflect the heat

That would be funny, except Bush got there first. http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,1999968,00.html

[Skunk]

The global warming apologists say "some areas will get colder cos of the warming". Err, yeah OK, so we have winners and losers. Some areas of the world will benifit, like not so many old people will drop dead in the freezing Uk winters. We can grow better crops, and we use much less fuel heating our houses. Do these reports of doom take into account the plus side of warming?



Nope, as the average (mean) temperature of the globe increases, the ice caps will melt. This will have a major impact on the Gulf stream (or Atlantic Conveyer System) potentially shutting it off. The Gulf Stream is what keeps Britain at the 'balmy' temperatures we experience, we are actually on the same latitude as Moscow. Once it slows dramatically or shuts down completely, temperatures will plummet in the UK. They have already noticed fluctuations in the flow rate of the Gulf Stream.

It's not just our dependence on the oil economy that causes global warming, as we drain land to use, especially peat bogs (a shitload is used in horticulture) this allows the humus/peat to begin to decompose again releasing CO2 and methane into the atmosphere boosting the greenhouse warming even more. Also there are large deposits of methane that lie frozen under the sea bed, as the oceans warm this will be released, this too has already begun to happen. Methane has more of a warming effect on the atmosphere than CO2.

As a further aside, global warming was actually predicted as faar back as the mid 1800's.

[wankmaster]

Nope, as the average (mean) temperature of the globe increases, the ice caps will melt. This will have a major impact on the Gulf stream (or Atlantic Conveyer System) potentially shutting it off. The Gulf Stream is what keeps Britain at the 'balmy' temperatures we experience, we are actually on the same latitude as Moscow. Once it slows dramatically or shuts down completely, temperatures will plummet in the UK. They have already noticed fluctuations in the flow rate of the Gulf Stream.


That Gulf Stream thing turns out to be an urban legend. Like a lot of things in science no one thinks to question it.

http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/51963?fulltext=true&print=yes

[Skunk]

That Gulf Stream thing turns out to be an urban legend. Like a lot of things in science no one thinks to question it.

http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/51963?fulltext=true&print=yes

Interesting research and article, though not totally debunking the Atlantic Conveyer system and it's effect on our climate, it does shed new light on the extent that it will affect us.
Thanks for the link, always good to be brought up to date with new research.

[wankmaster]

I wonder how many Global Warming scare papers have incorporated the Gulf Stream myth into their conclusions? It's there in the text books, so I'd not be surprised if many of them have.

To confuse you more, it turns out that most scientific papers are wrong anyway.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7915

[daveydude]

I wonder how many Global Warming scare papers have incorporated the Gulf Stream myth into their conclusions? It's there in the text books, so I'd not be surprised if many of them have.

Interesting stuff. But it's not proven to be a myth. That's just a theory is it not? Is the North Atlantic Drift anything to do with it?

To confuse you more, it turns out that most scientific papers are wrong anyway.

Including the one you quoted?

[strictlybroadband]

That Gulf Stream thing turns out to be an urban legend. Like a lot of things in science no one thinks to question it.

http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/51963?fulltext=true&print=yes

Bugger me sideways. :eek:

You've left me speechless (well, almost). Not that the lack of warming by gulfstream makes you in any way right about anything else, of course. :)

[JT]

From what I gather with this global warming is that, south off England we will get a mediterranean climate, just a little warmer than the south of france.

Up t North, they will get an ice age type climate and all die of the cold.


I'm yet to be convinced there is a problem. I for one say burn those fossil fuels asap!!!

[strictlybroadband]

From what I gather with this global warming is that, south off England we will get a mediterranean climate, just a little warmer than the south of france.

Up t North, they will get an ice age type climate and all die of the cold.


I'm yet to be convinced there is a problem. I for one say burn those fossil fuels asap!!!

But think of the poor, shivering whippets.

[JT]

But think of the poor, shivering whippets.

crispy duck?


Seriously the sooner the south gets a nice warm climate and all the northern council house social scum get to ride round on wooly mammoths the better :twocents: