Should we hate Hitler?

[dvtimes]

Hitler is quoted as the most evil man ever, but is he?

Hitler as a child found some of his family die due to ill health. Indeed he himself was ill as a child.

During ww1 he was the only one of his troops to survive.

This would for many have couse much mentall problem. Indeed such deaths must have affected him a lot.

When he became the German leader, he did not take power for himself but to improve germany. Indeed he created motorways that are still quoted as being the worlds best today. He also helped create the german car industry. He helped kick start tv, and even transmited live football.

Unlike polotitions of today, he seemed to do things for his country rather than himself.

We must also remember that the USA goverment suported him till the attack on perl habour. And even after the war pretected many of the german scietits and doctors.

While no evidence sugests he gave direct orders for the deaths of the jews, one must remember it was the finall solution.

The earler solutions were to send the jews to the uk. The uk goverment refused. So surly the uk goverment is someways responsible to the deaths of the jews.

Yet all my life I have been told he is evil and i must hate him. I just do not see this.

I see many worse leaders, inc our priminister, who has sent troops to there deaths for oil.

Mabe I am wrong.

[wankmaster]

He was also a vegitarian.

[xcite-tv]

I was brought up by my Jewish grandmother and half russian grandfather (who's parents fled Hitler) I dont hate him... I do hate Bush and Blair though ...go figure that out ?

[dvtimes]

Another thought is that if during ww2 we alowed refugees into the uk, we would have also had Einstien. Instead we said no, and he went to the usa.

That was good thinking.

[heidi84]

I dont hate hitler, sure he did a lot of bad stuff but he was a very clever man in a way to be able to do what he did even if it wasnt for good. Tony Blair is as evil but not as clever haha

[dvtimes]

He was also a vegitarian.

yes he was.

I heard (not sure if its true) that he had developed a green car, as he thought petrol was too poluting.

This is just it. When I hear the real things about him, he does not sound evil. But rather somone who was war shocked, but wanted to do good for his country.

If he was evil, I just cannot see then why he did so much for germany.

Yes, some of his ideas were extream, but considering his mind must have been altered and in some ways mad, this does not make him evil.

I have met many ex solders, and you can see war has affected there minds.

[xcite-tv]

An awful lot of medical research was down to his lot too....wrong but it happened

[dvtimes]

An awful lot of medical research was down to his lot too....wrong but it happened

yes

but wwhere is it now?

well the cia took it, with the sientists to the usa, where they found it of use.

[wankmaster]

Hitler was an enthusiastic anti smoker, in many ways an advocate of healthy living. He would not have allowed McDonalds into the Fatherland had he succeeded I'm sure.

Hitler did not want to invade Britain, he offered a pact, but instead we went in with the Americans who were defending oil interests in China, and Stalin, who I seem to remember exterminated more people than Hitler did and then enslaved Eatern Europe for donkey's years. It's not a clear cut as you would have believed.

[dvtimes]

Stalin was an evil bastered. he starved his own people.

[xcite-tv]

You have to also remember who was part of the funding of Hitler too...

A bank that one, Prescott Bush (grandadee of George W) was a director of

[wankmaster]

I believe the is evidence that Hitler did indeed only have one testicle, and that the Colonel Bogey march was more than crude propaganda.

[dvtimes]

I believe the is evidence that Hitler did indeed only have one testicle, and that the Colonel Bogey march was more than crude propaganda.

to be honest, i am not sure it that matters.

there seems to be a lot of guff said about him.

on one side its said he was gay, then on another he was having sex with his neice, then that lady friend of his.

again, probably pointless remarks.

one thing thats often said is that he was a big fan of chartly chaplin, as he used to watch the fims diuring ww1.

i think whatever you belive, its true that the first world war affected him a lot.

[A Priest]

history is written by the victors.

that said, hitler was a bit of a shit.

[ukwebmasters]

I wonder if he kept any porn

[eman]

For those of us who were born after the end of WW11 (which I imagine is most of us - apart from Paul Markham (sorry!! hehe))) it's a pointless question.

We're here because our parents survived. Ergo Hitler doesn't come into our equation - we (the Brits) defeated the bastard.

Hitler has no direct bearing on our lives.

You might do better to ask - "Should we hate William The Conqueror?"

[wankmaster]

history is written by the victors.

that said, hitler was a bit of a shit.

The Nazis were tried for war crimes, but the allied war crimes were never accounted for. ( e.g. Dreseden and the atom bombs on Japan ). A similar kangaroo court is currently in business in Iraq.

[dvtimes]

For those of us who were born after the end of WW11 (which I imagine is most of us - apart from Paul Markham (sorry!! hehe))) it's a pointless question.

We're here because our parents survived. Ergo Hitler doesn't come into our equation - we (the Brits) defeated the bastard.

Hitler has no direct bearing on our lives.

You might do better to ask - "Should we hate William The Conqueror?"

Not the same.

Hitler is quoted all the time as the most evil man going. As such we should compaire him to polotitions of our time, including what he did to benifit germany.

But you say he had no affect on you???

Well ww2, changed our lives. Technology increased at a huge rate due to ww2, such as plaes, cars, tv's and computers.

If not for ww2, we may still be only listening to the radio at this very point, simply as there may have been no push towards tv or computers.

In fact women in the uk were pushed into mens jobs during ww2. This itself proved tha\t women could do mens jobs. These days its not unusuall to see women buiding houses, or driving (crashing) HGV's.

Modern England only exsits because of ww2. In fact there is probably no aspect that you can think of for us in the uk that has not been infuenced by ww2.

Lets face it, even the drinking laws were around as they did not want people walking home drnk in the dark during a ww2.

[dvtimes]

Also what about the EU, which came about becase of ww2.

Also they keep finding ww2 bombs the germans droped all over the place (great at cars, poo at bombs).

[wankmaster]

Lets face it, even the drinking laws were around as they did not want people walking home drnk in the dark during a ww2.

I think that was WW1 that they did the drinking thing.

[wankmaster]

Also what about the EU, which came about becase of ww2.

Also they keep finding ww2 bombs the germans droped all over the place (great at cars, poo at bombs).

The V2 was a spohisticated weapon, we had nothing to touch it. The Germans were masters of rocketry. So they send a rocket 1000 miles from Holland to London and you expect em to be accurate to how much? Even today the Americans seem to keep bombing schools and hospitals ( whoops! ).

[eman]

Not the same.

Hitler is quoted all the time as the most evil man going. As such we should compaire him to polotitions of our time, including what he did to benifit germany.

But you say he had no affect on you???

Well ww2, changed our lives. Technology increased at a huge rate due to ww2, such as plaes, cars, tv's and computers.

If not for ww2, we may still be only listening to the radio at this very point, simply as there may have been no push towards tv or computers.

In fact women in the uk were pushed into mens jobs during ww2. This itself proved tha\t women could do mens jobs. These days its not unusuall to see women buiding houses, or driving (crashing) HGV's.

Modern England only exsits because of ww2. In fact there is probably no aspect that you can think of for us in the uk that has not been infuenced by ww2.

Lets face it, even the drinking laws were around as they did not want people walking home drnk in the dark during a ww2.

And that's all the more reason for hating him?

[smoothballs]

Hitler did say about England that we were getting too soft and would one day lose our empire!

[eman]

What I think is interesting is that a meat eating, booze swilling drunk, outsmarted, outmaneuvered and eventually conquered a clean living teetotal, vegetarian.

In fact, the Germans were only half the story.

Churchill didn't appreciate the benefits of his troops checking through 360 degrees! (eg Singapore is an island and the troops were looking out to sea rather than looking behind them) My Dad was one of many caught by the fucking Japs who emerged through the jungle.

[eman]

In fact, the Germans were only half the story.

Churchill didn't appreciate the benefits of his troops checking through 360 degrees! (eg Singapore is an island and the troops were looking out to sea rather than looking behind them) My Dad was one of many caught by the fucking Japs who emerged through the jungle.

I realise that I've moved on from the original post. Just don't like the fucking Japs.

[adultbusiness]

I dont hate hitler, sure he did a lot of bad stuff

That's putting it rather mildy don't you think!? He was responsible for the systematic slaughter of 100'000s of innocent people, men women and children... speak to someone who watched their family being shot or gassed and then maybe you'd realise what a fucking stupid statement that is......

[Scottybuzz]

I admire hitlers economic advances and some of his visions but thats where it ends.
For example many people think he is just a crazy man, who just hated jews just like that. thats wrong and hope that none of you fall under that trap.

my grandma during the war actually wanted hitler to invade britain because of what he had changed germany into. They had a thriving community and economy and all was disciplined and great. and britain was not doing well at all.

of course the horrors only came out later on.

[Scottybuzz]

Stalin was an evil bastered. he starved his own people.
likewise an economic genius with some great visions and some horrific visions.

[Twisted Illustration]

Hitler is quoted as the most evil man ever, but is he?

Hitler as a child found some of his family die due to ill health. Indeed he himself was ill as a child.

During ww1 he was the only one of his troops to survive.

This would for many have couse much mentall problem. Indeed such deaths must have affected him a lot.

When he became the German leader, he did not take power for himself but to improve germany. Indeed he created motorways that are still quoted as being the worlds best today. He also helped create the german car industry. He helped kick start tv, and even transmited live football.

Unlike polotitions of today, he seemed to do things for his country rather than himself.

We must also remember that the USA goverment suported him till the attack on perl habour. And even after the war pretected many of the german scietits and doctors.

While no evidence sugests he gave direct orders for the deaths of the jews, one must remember it was the finall solution.

The earler solutions were to send the jews to the uk. The uk goverment refused. So surly the uk goverment is someways responsible to the deaths of the jews.

Yet all my life I have been told he is evil and i must hate him. I just do not see this.

I see many worse leaders, inc our priminister, who has sent troops to there deaths for oil.

Mabe I am wrong.

Erm... he was a fucking twat who I hope is burning in fucking hell.

I think you'll find he maliciously and without remorse, had 6 million jews tortured and killed ...

Sorry, but... yes... he was fucking evil

[Nottslad]

The earler solutions were to send the jews to the uk. The uk goverment refused. So surly the uk goverment is someways responsible to the deaths of the jews.

Yet all my life I have been told he is evil and i must hate him. I just do not see this.

I see many worse leaders, inc our priminister, who has sent troops to there deaths for oil.

Mabe I am wrong.

Have you just got back from a BNP or British Movement Sunday night meeting?

[Simon]

No, he was just ahead of his time in wanting to create an undemocratic european superstate.

He put jews in the gas chamber, while this week the Dutch army gave themselves all medal for standing around doing nothing while over 7000 muslim men and boys were massacred in a "safehaven" in Bosnia.

[dvtimes]

Sorry.

I do not make my desisions on somone by propaganda.

I go on facts.

From evidence it sugests he did not give the death orders, it was him lower rank officers who gave the orders and developed the idea.

Hitler often let his lower rank officers make desisions without him to speed up things.

But my point is, Hitlers mind was very twisted. Probably could be descibed as mad.

Under UK law and several other countries law, if you are proved insane, then your legaly not resosible for your actions. In other words can you say somone who is mad is evil?

Its very easy to call me a BNP member, but thats a rather stupid thing to call me. Those who know me know I certainly am not a BNP member or a racest, or a Nasi suporter. But instead i go on facts.

To state Hitler was eveil you have to prove he was 100% sane.

Its clear from witnesses that he had some madness. Therfre how can one say he is evil.

[strictlybroadband]

I admire hitlers economic advances and some of his visions but thats where it ends

OK, you guys just have to be taking the piss now. This man was responsible for more deaths than probably any other single person in history. And his one "economic advance" was the introduction of slavery, which is a good way of cutting costs, but slightly unacceptable these days.

[adultbusiness]

Its very easy to call me a BNP member

It's also very easy to call you a fuckwit too......

[JT]

Sorry.

I do not make my desisions on somone by propaganda.

I go on facts.

From evidence it sugests he did not give the death orders, it was him lower rank officers who gave the orders and developed the idea.

Hitler often let his lower rank officers make desisions without him to speed up things.

But my point is, Hitlers mind was very twisted. Probably could be descibed as mad.

Under UK law and several other countries law, if you are proved insane, then your legaly not resosible for your actions. In other words can you say somone who is mad is evil?

Its very easy to call me a BNP member, but thats a rather stupid thing to call me. Those who know me know I certainly am not a BNP member or a racest, or a Nasi suporter. But instead i go on facts.

To state Hitler was eveil you have to prove he was 100% sane.

Its clear from witnesses that he had some madness. Therfre how can one say he is evil.


You know virtually nothing about the history of the Nazi party, Hitler and that period in history

I havnt got time to post real facts about how hitler not only knew about the "final solution to the jewish problem" but made sure it was implimented and how it was implimented, because there is so much of it.

Was hitler mad? I doubt it very much. Infact we have evidence to suggets he wasnt. After the war the allies had doctors investigating that exact thing. The research came from the tons and tons of material we had on him, as well as interviewing his 12 doctors and medical staff at great depth.

They concluded he wasnt mad, but *may* have suffered with parkinsons desease during the last few months of the war

[Scottybuzz]

OK, you guys just have to be taking the piss now. This man was responsible for more deaths than probably any other single person in history. And his one "economic advance" was the introduction of slavery, which is a good way of cutting costs, but slightly unacceptable these days.
i think youll find that russia was 200 years behind most 1st world countries countries before stalin took power. when he died Russia was neck and neck with america.
it was a lot more than just the introduction of simple slavery.
taking the piss? no.

[Scottybuzz]

Sorry.

I do not make my desisions on somone by propaganda.

I go on facts.

From evidence it sugests he did not give the death orders, it was him lower rank officers who gave the orders and developed the idea.

Hitler often let his lower rank officers make desisions without him to speed up things.

But my point is, Hitlers mind was very twisted. Probably could be descibed as mad.

Under UK law and several other countries law, if you are proved insane, then your legaly not resosible for your actions. In other words can you say somone who is mad is evil?

Its very easy to call me a BNP member, but thats a rather stupid thing to call me. Those who know me know I certainly am not a BNP member or a racest, or a Nasi suporter. But instead i go on facts.

To state Hitler was eveil you have to prove he was 100% sane.

Its clear from witnesses that he had some madness. Therfre how can one say he is evil.

I dont think he was mad in the sense of bonkers.

It was perfectly clear he wanted the jews dead from an early age, all you have to do is pick up mein kampf and realise it is all down there. he detested them.
i dont believe he attacked jews because of revenge but really because he honestly thought they were going to take over germany and ruin it. he thought he was completely 100% right.

just like saddam hussien. you will not see him going to his death as a coward, these leaders believe 100% fully in what they do. and will die still believing in what they did was right.

[adultbusiness]

See my earlier posts. Stalin trumps Hitler in the mass murder department.

Well that makes it all ok then!

On that basis, Fred West was a nice guy, very misunderstood... I mean, he never killed as many people as Geoffrey Dahmer :)

[Alf Garnet]

Hitlers scientists were the first scientists to establish a link between smoking and lung cancer. It was Hitler who banned smoking on buses and trains. Who refused to issue ration coupons for tobacco to pregnant women. He stopped tobacco advertising and said that tobacco advertising could not portray smoking as a glamorous, masculine pastime. The Nazis specifically forbid cigarette ads that associated smoking with sports – or auto racing. Hitler called these measures "the beginning of the end" of the vice.

Hitler killed 6 million Jews or there abouts. But think without him and because of that, think of how many more people were condemned to die after he went and lost. How many people are saved becuase of what he did, far more than he killed.

Now lets look at the No. 1 world cigarette producer The Jew Philip Morris opened a London tobacco store and by 1854 was making his own cigarettes. In 1985 Philip Morris bought General Foods and in 1988 acquired Kraft Foods.

No. 2 world food company.

No. 1 U.S. food company.

No. 1 world processed cheese seller.

No. 1 world cigarette producer.

No. 3 world confectionery business.

How many more people is he responsible for killing?

[adultbusiness]

Hitlers scientists were the first scientists to establish a link between smoking and lung cancer. It was Hitler who banned smoking on buses and trains. Who refused to issue ration coupons for tobacco to pregnant women. He stopped tobacco advertising and said that tobacco advertising could not portray smoking as a glamorous, masculine pastime. The Nazis specifically forbid cigarette ads that associated smoking with sports – or auto racing. Hitler called these measures "the beginning of the end" of the vice.

Hitler killed 6 million Jews or there abouts. But think without him and because of that, think of how many more people were condemned to die after he went and lost. How many people are saved becuase of what he did, far more than he killed.

Now lets look at the No. 1 world cigarette producer The Jew Philip Morris opened a London tobacco store and by 1854 was making his own cigarettes. In 1985 Philip Morris bought General Foods and in 1988 acquired Kraft Foods.

No. 2 world food company.

No. 1 U.S. food company.

No. 1 world processed cheese seller.

No. 1 world cigarette producer.

No. 3 world confectionery business.

How many more people is he responsible for killing?

Wow, what a shame he missed out on being gassed to death along with his children and relatives.... come to think of it, that would have been too good, I prefer the method of making them dig their own graves before being shot in the back of the head...

*sigh*

[Rosie]

I'm with you Jerry - I just assumed this thread was a joke - and I'm still assuming this thread is a joke. (Welcome back Alf BTW)


the introduction of slavery, which is a good way of cutting costs, but slightly unacceptable these days.

Erm.......

[carol.prime]

HATE HITLER...he kills many innocent lives just for his power and selfishness...burn in hell hitler...:devil:

[Scottybuzz]

Hitlers scientists were the first scientists to establish a link between smoking and lung cancer. It was Hitler who banned smoking on buses and trains. Who refused to issue ration coupons for tobacco to pregnant women. He stopped tobacco advertising and said that tobacco advertising could not portray smoking as a glamorous, masculine pastime. The Nazis specifically forbid cigarette ads that associated smoking with sports – or auto racing. Hitler called these measures "the beginning of the end" of the vice.



i think this is evidence for my view point that hitler was not mad, but doing what he 100% truly though was correct for humanity and germany.

we may see it as crazy and sadistic but not him and the rest of the high ranking nazi's

[ciggiez]

There is no black or white when it comes to personalities - only shade of grey.

No one person is 100% good or 100% evil.

So Hitler in many ways was a nice guy. This does not compensate for ruthlessly exterminating some people that he didn't like terribly much.

[strictlybroadband]

i think youll find that russia was 200 years behind most 1st world countries countries before stalin took power. when he died Russia was neck and neck with america.
it was a lot more than just the introduction of simple slavery.
taking the piss? no.

I'm talking about Hitler and Germany... sorry, I thought you were too.

[Scottybuzz]

I'm talking about Hitler and Germany... sorry, I thought you were too.
whoopsy doopsy. sorry about that.

[strictlybroadband]

See my earlier posts. Stalin trumps Hitler in the mass murder department.

Not if you include the WW2 death toll.

[strictlybroadband]

I believe about fifty five million people died in WW2 in Europe. I don't think it is fair to chalk all of those up to Adolf. So I still say Stalin trumps Hitler

I'll see your Stalin and raise you a Pol Pot.

[Twisted Illustration]

Hitlers scientists were the first scientists to establish a link between smoking and lung cancer. It was Hitler who banned smoking on buses and trains. Who refused to issue ration coupons for tobacco to pregnant women. He stopped tobacco advertising and said that tobacco advertising could not portray smoking as a glamorous, masculine pastime. The Nazis specifically forbid cigarette ads that associated smoking with sports – or auto racing. Hitler called these measures "the beginning of the end" of the vice.

Hitler killed 6 million Jews or there abouts. But think without him and because of that, think of how many more people were condemned to die after he went and lost. How many people are saved becuase of what he did, far more than he killed.

Now lets look at the No. 1 world cigarette producer The Jew Philip Morris opened a London tobacco store and by 1854 was making his own cigarettes. In 1985 Philip Morris bought General Foods and in 1988 acquired Kraft Foods.

No. 2 world food company.

No. 1 U.S. food company.

No. 1 world processed cheese seller.

No. 1 world cigarette producer.

No. 3 world confectionery business.

How many more people is he responsible for killing?


You fucking prick. LOL!... Your argument is dead before you start it ...

Hitler murdered, raped, tortured (via his fucking warped minions), 6 million Jews...

One Jew makes a successful business that has an end user base full of CHOICE... it's up to them if they smoke etc. No one's throwing their children into a fucking furnace alive and stripping them naked and forcing them to do hard labor before they die of exaustion or get shot/burned alive.

Your argument is actually quite disturbing... how you can even spend the time writing ... I seriously hope you're just fucking around on the Internet...

[wankmaster]

It's interesting how we like to have a personality to blame. Hitler was a bastid, we got rid of Hitler, and his evil died with him. Case closed.

Interstingly I watched the film "Patton" again yesterday, a great film. Patton won the war in Africa, then in Sicilly, then in France. There is then a scene where Patton wants to "finish the job" and go after the fuckin' commies. He is bewlidered why the president refuses to do this.

Hitler did no kill the jews alone. The German people were not ignorant as they have claimed for years, he did have support. Poland, Austria and Czech were not invaded, but according to the large percentage of German speakers, liberated. Hitler was also warmly welcomed into France and Holland. An interesting study I saw from a Jewish University into the culpability of all european nations put the Netherlands at the top of the collaboration league as they exported a higher percentage of jews to the camps than any other nation. There was a 30 guilder bounty per jew, which had a high take up rate. After the war the Dutch opened the Anne Frank house and banged on about how liberal they were. History rewritten, as usual.

The Danes came out best, the refused to give up their jews full stop, and Hitler respected this.

Point is Hitler was not the "evil genius who hypnotized a nation", that really lets to many people off the hook. Support for fascism was masive at the time, it was a war of left v right. Left "won" and europe remained divided for over a generation. A strong united europe was not in US interests at the time.
Fighting Hitler "'cos he was killin the jews" was a good reason for the war, but only after the event. Wars are not faught to "do the right thing" there's usually some political or economic reason at play here.

[Paul Markham]

For those of us who were born after the end of WW11 (which I imagine is most of us - apart from Paul Markham (sorry!! hehe))) it's a pointless question.

We're here because our parents survived. Ergo Hitler doesn't come into our equation - we (the Brits) defeated the bastard.

Hitler has no direct bearing on our lives.

You might do better to ask - "Should we hate William The Conqueror?"
This is a stupid statement.

Israel was created due to WWII and the Holocaust, this has led to the rise of militant Islamics and much of the terrorism today.

Without Hitler and WWII Stalin would not of been allowed to invade half of Europe. From this came the Cold War, the Arms Race and war in Vietnam, Korea still a problem today, Cuba and other conflicts. Remember Russia prior to WWII was broke, the West built it up so it would fight against Hitler.

Even the EU was formed due to WWII.

[Rosie]

Hitler was a bastid, Yes

we got rid of Hitler, Yes

and his evil died with him. . No :(

The Danes came out best, the refused to give up their jews full stop, and Hitler respected this. Well, erm, sort of. The Danish army (all 5000 of them) were stationned on the Danish/German border ready to fight off the German army. The German army (all 200,000 of them) came marching round the corner and the Danes said "ah bugger" and went home. Massive over simplification, but Denmark collaborated with the Nazis on a Governmental level - although like France there was a resistance move amongst the people. 60 years on and we still give the French shit for surrendering, but nobody seems to give Denmark the same shit... however Denmark IS very very little :)

[strictlybroadband]

It's interesting how we like to have a personality to blame. Hitler was a bastid, we got rid of Hitler, and his evil died with him. Case closed.


Good point. The reality was that Hitler tapped into a deep anti-Semitism in Germany. He didn't create it, just exploited it to gain power.

The reality was also that many British and American conservatives found fascism attractive, and if Hitler hadn't invaded Poland they'd have turned a blind eye while he annihilated Germany's Jewish/Gypsy populations.

BTW, I've read 2 good novels covering what might have happened if Germany had won the war... Fatherland by Robert Harris and Making History by Stephen Fry. Both books make you realise just how close fascism came to winning.

[NumptyNuts]

The Danes came out best, the refused to give up their jews full stop, and Hitler respected this.

The Nazi in charge of the Demark was appauled at what was happening to the Jews so delayed the deportation of them for as long as he possibly could.
(he was not the only one in the Nazi Party who fealt this way ye he was one of the very few to do something about it)

Having been stationed in denmark during the war he lived a pretty normal life compared to most as did the danes compared to the rest of occupied Europe. In deed the germans army said it was the best place to be posted too.

I think I am correct in saying that when he could do no more he arranged through the danish police force to pre warn the jews before the round up started - I may be worng here though I beleive they boarded many small boats and headed for sweden.

On the subject of do we hate hitler let me spin this around and move things on 60 years. If hitler stood for power in the UK at the next election and promised the people that he would -

1) Stop imigration
2) Deport non Brits out of the UK
3) Show zero tollerence to the work shy
4) Promise to boost the ecconomy with lining the pockets of non Brits

I think we would prob see him get a lion share of the vote, Hitlers Europe is not too disimilar to modern Europe, people in Germany, Polland, Russia, Chec, Lativa, Romainia AND the UK saw the Jews as vermin, business people who collaborated to increase the cost of living while lining their own pockets.

Hitler never conceived the idea of the death camps, I do not think he even went to the camps to see for himself what was happening, Rudolf Heiss was the brains behind dealing with jews, he was asked to get shot of them.

I will stick my neck on the line and say this - if the UK and Europe is not sorted it will not be long before another Nazi party gets control of a major EU country and that means a risk of the history repeating its self. Indeed such extreme white groups in America already beleive the UK has lost its battle and will not be a white nation, are they right possibly.

Basically the white race in the UK is going down the tubes, we have no family values nor community interaction, our kids have little or no respect for their elders, hardly anyone goes to church yet we all want presents at christmas sending out cards etc.

Heres something for everyone to try - watch a documentry about VE day and look at the crowd in Trafalger Square - then look at the same place today or when you are next in london there has been a complete change of culture and ethnic origin.

[strictlybroadband]

I will stick my neck on the line and say this - if the UK and Europe is not sorted it will not be long before another Nazi party gets control of a major EU country and that means a risk of the history repeating its self. Indeed such extreme white groups in America already beleive the UK has lost its battle and will not be a white nation, are they right possibly.


The UK is less than 10% non-white, although the BNP would have you believe otherwise. The white population in the US will be a minority by the middle of this century.

BTW Smiths, I hate to point it out to you but you're a little dusky yourself. There's no chance in hell you're 100% "English".


Basically the white race in the UK is going down the tubes, we have no family values nor community interaction, our kids have little or no respect for their elders, hardly anyone goes to church yet we all want presents at christmas sending out cards etc.


British culture is what it has always been. Non-intellectual and heavy-drinking. That hasn't changed since Shakespeare's time. Without the light-drinking, family-respecting African and Asian populations, the country would be in an even worse state.


Heres something for everyone to try - watch a documentry about VE day and look at the crowd in Trafalger Square - then look at the same place today or when you are next in london there has been a complete change of culture and ethnic origin.

My Grandad would have been there on VE day. He'll tell you how racist and intolerant Brits were towards Jews like him, although he fought in the RAF.

IMHO immigration has improved this country enormously.

[Paul Markham]

Good point. The reality was that Hitler tapped into a deep anti-Semitism in Germany. He didn't create it, just exploited it to gain power.

The reality was also that many British and American conservatives found fascism attractive, and if Hitler hadn't invaded Poland they'd have turned a blind eye while he annihilated Germany's Jewish/Gypsy populations.

BTW, I've read 2 good novels covering what might have happened if Germany had won the war... Fatherland by Robert Harris and Making History by Stephen Fry. Both books make you realise just how close fascism came to winning.
My father fought in WWII, he was later in business in the East End of London, in the garment manufacturing industry. He met and worked with many Jews who had escaped, suffered or had relatives in the Holocaust. A very close friend and business partner, Jewish who lost his family in the camps, married the daughter of a Nazi.

He said the same, Hitler used the hatred of the Jews to rise to power. The question is why did people hate the Jews to such a degree? Many knew what was happening, many overseas politicians knew what was happening. Few did anything. Not even the Americans.

Hitler wanted to export more Jews, his problem was few wanted them. You have to ask yourself why?

[strictlybroadband]

Hitler wanted to export more Jews, his problem was few wanted them. You have to ask yourself why?

Apparently it's due to Christian resentment over the Jews' supposed betral of Jesus. In reality, Europe has never tolerated minorities of any type. The Gypsies have been treated even worse than the Jews, and still are (especially in your new chosen country). Europe is and has always been the continent of genocide and intolerance - nowhere else comes close.

[NumptyNuts]

He said the same, Hitler used the hatred of the Jews to rise to power. The question is why did people hate the Jews to such a degree? Many knew what was happening, many overseas politicians knew what was happening. Few did anything. Not even the Americans.

Hitler wanted to export more Jews, his problem was few wanted them. You have to ask yourself why?

After the war was the same issue, no one wanted the Jews MILLIONS were cast out on the rubbish heap and left to find their own way in life.

[JT]

What makes me laugh is the way people cant see whats going on today.

The Germans and other Europeans were being fed bulshit anti Jewish propoganda. From Cartoons in newspapers to being blamed for Terrorist attacks, that the Nazi's were doing themselves. They were constantly being blammed and shown to the world how unreasonable they were and how different, how they didnt try and fit it, how they only took, how they looked different etc etc etc...............

Same thing is happening today and 99% of the poulation are falling for it. There isnt a day goes by that we arent being shown how different the muslims are. From Cartoons in newspapers to being blamed for Terrorist attacks. They are constantly being blammed and shown to the world how unreasonable they are and how different, how they dont try and fit it, how they only take, how they lookd different etc etc etc...............


History is indeed repeating itself. "It happened before so it can happen again"

[JT]

Indeed such extreme white groups in America already beleive the UK has lost its battle and will not be a white nation, are they right possibly.

Yes, we need to look to extreme right wing American rascists for guidence on many issues in this country

[NumptyNuts]

IMHO immigration has improved this country enormously.

You can have too much of a good thing, it has not stopped is not going to stop.

It makes little difference to me personally, where I live they aint interested in coming. I am just stating what a lot of people in the UK are thinking yet are affraid to say.

My personall view is this - if some one is prepared to work for a living then they are welcome, if they come her for crime or to exploit our benefit system they should be slung in the channel.

I dsagree with you about the English culture, we used to be church going, have family values we do not have any of this now, now we bread white trash on mass who in turn are breeding white trash.

[NumptyNuts]

Yes, we need to look to extreme right wing American rascists for guidence on many issues in this country

it was small quote from a whole programme, I dont support them ini any shape or form, however some of the points he raised are totally valid and in the spirit of freedom of speach I was prepared to hear what he had to say.

[strictlybroadband]

I dsagree with you about the English culture, we used to be church going, have family values we do not have any of this now, now we bread white trash on mass who in turn are breeding white trash.

British culture has always been much less religious than most others, dating way back to the split between the Catholic and Protestant churches. British and Northern European "family values" have also always been much looser than in most other parts of the world.

Most churchgoers in London today are African. The most family-oriented people in Britain today are African and Asian.

Read some British history... we've always been more chilled out than most other nations about religion and "morality". I think that's a strength of British society, not a weakness.

[Paul Markham]

Apparently it's due to Christian resentment over the Jews' supposed betral of Jesus. In reality, Europe has never tolerated minorities of any type. The Gypsies have been treated even worse than the Jews, and still are (especially in your new chosen country). Europe is and has always been the continent of genocide and intolerance - nowhere else comes close.
I would not agree with that completely.

Africa comes close, they love to kill the people who live across the river. The situation in the Middle East today is one sect killing another, in the name of fighting the Americans. India was very bad after Independence, Japanese had no problems slaughtering Chinese during the war, they treated the Chinese like sub humans.

The sad thing is humans love to hate as much as they love anything.

As for the Jews betrayal of Christ, it was the Romans who nailed him to a cross, the Jews would of stoned him to death. No one blames the Romans.

[strictlybroadband]

As for the Jews betrayal of Christ, it was the Romans who nailed him to a cross, the Jews would of stoned him to death. No one blames the Romans.

That's because it was the Romans who invented Christianity as we know it today, and they weren't going to blame themselves...

My point was, Jews aren't the only minority who have been persecuted in Europe. In fact most minorities have been persecuted in Europe. Jews found tolerance and shelter in the Islamic world, but never in the Christian world.

[Empress_JoinRightNow]

Hitler is quoted as the most evil man ever, but is he?

Hitler as a child found some of his family die due to ill health. Indeed he himself was ill as a child.

During ww1 he was the only one of his troops to survive.

This would for many have couse much mentall problem. Indeed such deaths must have affected him a lot.

When he became the German leader, he did not take power for himself but to improve germany. Indeed he created motorways that are still quoted as being the worlds best today. He also helped create the german car industry. He helped kick start tv, and even transmited live football.

Unlike polotitions of today, he seemed to do things for his country rather than himself.

We must also remember that the USA goverment suported him till the attack on perl habour. And even after the war pretected many of the german scietits and doctors.

While no evidence sugests he gave direct orders for the deaths of the jews, one must remember it was the finall solution.

The earler solutions were to send the jews to the uk. The uk goverment refused. So surly the uk goverment is someways responsible to the deaths of the jews.

Yet all my life I have been told he is evil and i must hate him. I just do not see this.

I see many worse leaders, inc our priminister, who has sent troops to there deaths for oil.

Mabe I am wrong.


What Hitler did is purely EVIL...we should hate the DEEDS and we should see to it that it won't happen again...

[NumptyNuts]

British culture has always been much less religious than most others, dating way back to the split between the Catholic and Protestant churches. British and Northern European "family values" have also always been much looser than in most other parts of the world.

Most churchgoers in London today are African. The most family-oriented people in Britain today are African and Asian.

Read some British history... we've always been more chilled out than most other nations about religion and "morality". I think that's a strength of British society, not a weakness.


mmm, I dont think we have been more chilled out from my house i can see a Minster and church both of which have been around for nearly 1000 years.

What has changed in the UK is people have surrounded them selves with product and closed them selves of from intergrating with their communities.

Still if we are so chilled about religion then maybe we should knock xmas on the head and just replace it with a bank holiday?

We historically have not been chilled about religion from what I can gather, the coutry like my home town is littered with placs of worship.

Maybe its just a london thing but round here the churches seem to be pretty full on a sunday morning :-)

[JT]

Maybe its just a london thing but round here the churches seem to be pretty full on a sunday morning :-)


Really thats odd, because a few posts up you said the opposite

hardly anyone goes to church yet we all want presents at christmas sending out cards etc.


So maybe its not as bad as you would have tried having us believe then ;)

[strictlybroadband]

Still if we are so chilled about religion then maybe we should knock xmas on the head and just replace it with a bank holiday?

We did that years ago.

[NumptyNuts]

Really thats odd, because a few posts up you said the opposite




So maybe its not as bad as you would have tried having us believe then ;)


Where I live is prob some what relgious mate given the history of the area, they prob pack out the churches here due to the fact they have been up for 1000 years or so. :)

[strictlybroadband]

Where I live is prob some what relgious mate given the history of the area, they prob pack out the churches here due to the fact they have been up for 1000 years or so. :)

Out of interest...

1) Do you attend church?

2) Do you think religion is a good thing?

IMHO the less people attending church/mosque/synagogue/temple, the more civilised we become.

[NumptyNuts]

1) Do you attend church?

No I do not attend church, when I was younger I did and while schooling I also attended Sunday School, the more I age the more I think about what I was taught and do not see it as religion but rules, social rules.

2) Do you think religion is a good thing?

It is important for people to beleive in something, my understanding of the various religions is they what I described above, social rule that reflect the community they live within. I have seen first hand in Greece for example how powerful religion is and how it brings people together within their communities.

Every community needs a clear defined leader, the same as every business needs a focal point of leadership, this is what I feel churchs and other places of worship bring, sorry offer to citizans of the UK though a lot of us turn our back or just dont go.

If society is to develop and move forward in a peaceful mannor then congregations are certainly something that will be needed or we will end up with millions of small pockets of people who apply their own rules to life paying no regard for what has been learnt over the past 20K years.

I dont know if you are but I am christianed and when I die I suppose will be blessed and a prayer or two read out before they despose of my body, this process I guess is what many of us will go through. So in my case I have been blessed by god on my arrival into the world and will be blessed by god when I leave this world.

I guess anyone who goes through this is religious.

IMHO the less people attending church/mosque/synagogue/temple, the more civilised we become.


The way I see it is if you remove the figure heads of a community there is no focal point so how can anything be resolved. At the moment our focal point is the school, a lot of time is spent supporting them, they are educating the little one so we interact with other people within our community who are of similar backgrounds and from this friendships form.

How many people on this board are married? Or are thinking of getting married? How many people on this board will be greating families with a warm 'Merry Christmas' and sitting down to feast is less then 2 weeks? How many of us enjoy an Easter Holiday?

All of these are acts of religious acts, lions, apes or any other animal on this planet do not do any of this. :)

So in answer to your question and reflecting on it I guess I am religious

[wankmaster]

Yes, very thought provoking. Thanks for the link.

[Jel]

Cool, politics and religion in the same thread. Lemme sink a few beers before I post ;)