View Full Version : So how old should models be to start doing shoots?
dvtimes
12-09-06, 06:23 PM
So how old should models be to start doing shoots?
heidi84
12-09-06, 06:25 PM
18
personally, i don't see a problem with 18 either
wankmaster
12-09-06, 06:37 PM
So those pictures of Sam Fox aged 16 showing her tits are now illegal?
I think 16
Without soundig like a nonce, but if the legal age of consent is 16 then why can't they be filmed/photographed at 16. Maybe make 16 for topless/nude and 18 for sex.
carol.prime
12-09-06, 06:44 PM
18 can do, but i guess if the model has a pretty looking face and a voluptuous body..even though she's not 18 yet, i think she can be ready for a shoot...cheers to that amigos :cheers2:
mOBSCENE
12-09-06, 06:46 PM
I think 16
Without soundig like a nonce, but if the legal age of consent is 16 then why can't they be filmed/photographed at 16. Maybe make 16 for topless/nude and 18 for sex.
Good point. Especially since you can buy cigarettes at 16 and fuck up your life and health by becoming addicted to some deadly shit for 25 years - a lot worse than doing a bit of porn imho :)
I don't think 16 year olds are mature enough to make the decision though, and could easily be manipulated. So could 18 year olds. Then again so could 38 year olds.
In Kazakhstan they have raised legal age for being porn movie star to 12 (age of consent is 11) (NB only according to Borat :) )
wankmaster
12-09-06, 07:44 PM
How about using the age of puberty as the day when you can get married, join the army, concent to sex, make a porno file and vote. ( yes busy day for some people ).
Or is that to radical a suggestion?
Good point. Especially since you can buy cigarettes at 16 and fuck up your life and health by becoming addicted to some deadly shit for 25 years - a lot worse than doing a bit of porn imho :)
I don't think 16 year olds are mature enough to make the decision though, and could easily be manipulated. So could 18 year olds. Then again so could 38 year olds.
In Kazakhstan they have raised legal age for being porn movie star to 12 (age of consent is 11) (NB only according to Borat :) )
Yeah but then there are some vert sensible and matuer 16 year olds ;)
daveydude
12-09-06, 08:39 PM
Gotta say 18 or half my content is illegal ;)
dvtimes
12-09-06, 08:40 PM
so for most people are happy for the age to be 18.
got to be honest, i see no reason why it neds to be raised.
in fact in the uk you can join (unless i am wrong) the army and be shot before your 18.
if anything should have an age increase, it should be the uk army. i belive other countries you must be much older to join up.
so for most people are happy for the age to be 18.
got to be honest, i see no reason why it neds to be raised.
in fact in the uk you can join (unless i am wrong) the army and be shot before your 18.
if anything should have an age increase, it should be the uk army. i belive other countries you must be much older to join up.
in the army, you can drive at sixteen
pleasureville
12-09-06, 10:11 PM
I think thats our laws are daft... how I drove at 17 ... oh my god.. I look back & think... A machine that kills is dangerous in anyones hands let alone a naive 17 yr old...
In this case also I believe 20 or maybe even 21 is a great age for modelling.. I wouldnt want any younger than 20 working on my site.
fredicus
12-09-06, 11:10 PM
If the Govt reckons your old enough to tax, I don't see how they can justify restricting what you do.
.
Cardinal_Sin
12-09-06, 11:27 PM
I think thats our laws are daft... how I drove at 17 ... oh my god.. I look back & think... A machine that kills is dangerous in anyones hands let alone a naive 17 yr old...
In this case also I believe 20 or maybe even 21 is a great age for modelling.. I wouldnt want any younger than 20 working on my site.
This is a difficult one for me - My daughter was raped when she was only 7 and now the word "teen" scares me -
Some girls at 16 have the ability to make future decisions - Some girls at 20 still do not understand simple logic -
The best we can do, is to understand the ability of each model and make an educated guess weather doing a session with her will work out well for both parties.
Don't forget this: What we do is for continued cash flow - We make biz choices and we make the cash - A 19 year old girl without much brain can perform wonders - Then, when she FULLY realises what she has done, we simple turn round and show her the signed model form? And screw her life up?
I do not wish to be a part of that internet biz - Not in the slightest.
I will never photograph a teen for any reason - I will also never work with a model whom I presume to be working for cash simply for today and incapable of thinking things through.
If anyone disagrees with me - I really don't give the slightest fuck - Read the first sentence of my post - I have that to live with.
That's awful Cardinal Sin. Sorry to hear that.
Most, if not all, the pornstars I've met have been abused as kids.
pleasureville
12-10-06, 12:28 AM
This is a difficult one for me - My daughter was raped when she was only 7 and now the word "teen" scares me -
Some girls at 16 have the ability to make future decisions - Some girls at 20 still do not understand simple logic -
The best we can do, is to understand the ability of each model and make an educated guess weather doing a session with her will work out well for both parties.
Don't forget this: What we do is for continued cash flow - We make biz choices and we make the cash - A 19 year old girl without much brain can perform wonders - Then, when she FULLY realises what she has done, we simple turn round and show her the signed model form? And screw her life up?
I do not wish to be a part of that internet biz - Not in the slightest.
I will never photograph a teen for any reason - I will also never work with a model whom I presume to be working for cash simply for today and incapable of thinking things through.
If anyone disagrees with me - I really don't give the slightest fuck - Read the first sentence of my post - I have that to live with.
My friend...im not sure anything anyne says can make these type of things better in life.. but you have all my wishes your daughter and your family have got through the worst and get on with your lives trustin in people.. I dont like the idea that porn can rage these types of things as we all watch porn & I hope i can say for us all in B n B that none of us would ever dream of anything in the slight alike this..
This threads turning contraversal.. I can say I agree with you, all of what you said is how I believe and only girls or guys that wanna make a life out of modelling should do it instead of the cash for today.
Hence why in my site and future sites I wouldnt personally have teens...
have a good night... xxx
But I thought we all agreed porn had nothing to do with rape? So I don't see the connection between what happened to your daughter and the age at which its OK to shoot girls. Not least because there's an 11 year gap between her and the girls we're talking about. Having said that, nothing less than life for the guy who did it is good enough for him and I don't care what psycho-babble excuses he has that allow him to justify or excuse what he did.
Or do we all secretly think that porn might actually be bad for the people of do it or view it?
I also don't buy the all-porn-girls-are-abuse-cases arguement, some clearly are, but all of them?
If you really think along these lines what the hell are you doing in this business?
If people IN the business think like this why does it come as such a surprise when the rest of the world holds similar views.
Shandy McAndy
12-10-06, 09:26 AM
For us 50+ but we will except very young ones, say 45 and over :)
Cardinal_Sin
12-10-06, 09:30 AM
But I thought we all agreed porn had nothing to do with rape? So I don't see the connection between what happened to your daughter and the age at which its OK to shoot girls. Not least because there's an 11 year gap between her and the girls we're talking about. Having said that, nothing less than life for the guy who did it is good enough for him and I don't care what psycho-babble excuses he has that allow him to justify or excuse what he did.
Or do we all secretly think that porn might actually be bad for the people of do it or view it?
I also don't buy the all-porn-girls-are-abuse-cases arguement, some clearly are, but all of them?
If you really think along these lines what the hell are you doing in this business?
If people IN the business think like this why does it come as such a surprise when the rest of the world holds similar views.
This happened about 25 years ago - And is something that does have an affect because when I consider teen, I also think of the thousands of very close to the knuckle sites out there and the reasons some type of guys join them
I have been doing softcore - mainly non nude, for several years - My youngest model is 26 - So what I do doesn't really compare to either porn or teen.
Shandy McAndy
12-10-06, 09:52 AM
I am curious, what would your definition of porn be? I am not being argumentative, but this discussion has been on and off the boards for years. My definition has always been if it makes a customer cum, its porn. Soft or hardcore.
You produce soft core, which I assume, means no penetration. But to most of my models, soft core is girl girl sex in any form, blow jobs, just about anything that doesn't involve penetration by a penis. That actually shocked me.
The definitions of porn seem to keep changing.
If its in focus its porn, if its out of focus its art :)
Cardinal_Sin
12-10-06, 10:03 AM
I am curious, what would your definition of porn be? I am not being argumentative, but this discussion has been on and off the boards for years. My definition has always been if it makes a customer cum, its porn. Soft or hardcore.
You produce soft core, which I assume, means no penetration. But to most of my models, soft core is girl girl sex in any form, blow jobs, just about anything that doesn't involve penetration by a penis. That actually shocked me.
The definitions of porn seem to keep changing.
Whatever anyones definition of porn may be - softcore non nude and semi nude surely can not be clasified as porn - If a person is happy enough to jerk off at nn images/videos, then there is a market for producing such content - I only film the model - I don't fim what the viewer does!
Shandy McAndy
12-10-06, 10:05 AM
Whatever anyones definition of porn may be - softcore non nude and semi nude surely can not be clasified as porn - If a person is happy enough to jerk off at nn images/videos, then there is a market for producing such content - I only film the model - I don't fim what the viewer does!
Softcore and non nude can definatly be classed as porn. If you are shooting content for a consumer to wank over its porn.
Wether he's wanking cause he likes to look at panties or he's wanking because he likes to see a woman with 8 black cocks in her bum. Its still porn
Cardinal_Sin
12-10-06, 10:09 AM
Softcore and non nude can definatly be classed as porn. If you are shooting content for a consumer to wank over its porn.
Wether he's wanking cause he likes to look at panties or he's wanking because he likes to see a woman with 8 black cocks in her bum. Its still porn
I think 2257 coveres the definition.
If you really think along these lines what the hell are you doing in this business?
If people IN the business think like this why does it come as such a surprise when the rest of the world holds similar views.
Porn is great!
I've not met much UK talent but a lot of the US girls have had something happen to them in the past. That doesn't mean that porn is bad, it just means there are some sick fucks out there that abuse people.
Shandy McAndy
12-10-06, 10:11 AM
I think 2257 coveres the definition.
Since when are we as UK adult webmasters rellying on the US governments definition on anything?
You are shooting pictures for men to wank over. Thats porn, regardless off what some crackpot in the states thinks about your record keeping regulations may be at any one time
Shandy McAndy
12-10-06, 10:18 AM
Because most rely on US based billing companies. Money talks...and well we all know what walks.
What are you talking about?
Shandy McAndy
12-10-06, 10:22 AM
US Billing companies (and Visa) take 2257 very seriously.
Whats that got to do with how we as adult webmasters decide what we decide what we think porn is? You yourself just gave other definitions.
By the way, there is not one billing company that asks anyone to comply with 2257, let alone sites outside the US, VISA do not ask anyone to impliment 2257 to use VISA. Its a US record keeping requirment.
So again. What are you talking about?
Whats that got to do with how we as adult webmasters decide what we decide what we think porn is? You yourself just gave other definitions.
By the way, there is not one billing company that asks anyone to comply with 2257, let alone sites outside the US, VISA do not ask anyone to impliment 2257 to use VISA. Its a US record keeping requirment.
So again. What are you talking about?
Every site that I've setup has needed a 2257 statement and this has been a condition of the billing company.
Shandy McAndy
12-10-06, 10:28 AM
I fundamentally agree with you, but if you stay on the right-ish side of 2257 (which is a ridiculous law), it is just one less worry you will have. Who knows when some dumb fuck bubba sherrif is going to go after someone who is selling porn in the US market, possibly on an American server, billing through a us company and decide to flex their legal muscle overseas?
Just out of idle curiosity, how will the sherif know Im not compliant as he wouldnt be able to see my records?
Shandy McAndy
12-10-06, 10:31 AM
Every site that I've setup has needed a 2257 statement and this has been a condition of the billing company.
A statement is not the 2257 record keeping requirment. A statement is .001% of the requirment
What billing company was this anyway that was trying to enforce a US record keeping requirment?
Shandy McAndy
12-10-06, 10:37 AM
You know, I have thought of that. In Canada, we are not legally allowed to disclose personal information. And that hat is the basis of 2257. So if the FBI crosses the border and demands to see my documentation, I cannot legally give it to them. However, America being the litagous fucking nation they are, I don't want to be on the receiving end of a legal case that will cost a fortune to win.
For instance, right now, they are trying to indict and extradite a Canadian for selling marijuana seeds by mail order into the US. Americans seem to think they have exraterritoriality around the world. Personally, I just don't want to be the low hanging fruit they try and pick.
Yes, but extradition treaty is only when the two countries share the same law.
IE Murder is illegal in the UK and the US and so there is an extradition treaty. But there is no 2257 law in the UK and infact many parts break EU law and so there is no extradition treaty.
But even taking that aside, how would they know unless they came to my office to look, which they have no power to anyway.
A statement is not the 2257 record keeping requirment. A statement is .001% of the requirment
What billing company was this anyway that was trying to enforce a US record keeping requirment?
The billing company doesn't check your filing cabinet for the docs of every set, thats up to you.
ukwebmasters
12-10-06, 11:38 AM
I think 16+ for topless/swimwear lingerie whatever you wanna call it ::: that law passed a few years back was fucking retarded. blunkett, wasn't it.
xcite-tv
12-10-06, 02:56 PM
I think 16
Without soundig like a nonce, but if the legal age of consent is 16 then why can't they be filmed/photographed at 16. Maybe make 16 for topless/nude and 18 for sex.
I agree 100%
but personally we wouldnt shoot hardcore with anyone under 21 as i have already said
dvtimes
12-10-06, 03:04 PM
I do not think its ever a good idea to do under 18 models topless.
Mainly as legaly they cannot sign a model release.
A model release is a contract and as such you must be 18 or older to sign it.
Sure a parent can sign it, but I am never happy when a second person signs for the first.
I think 18 is sensable. At that age they have been to school.
At 16, they may think sod it, leave school without bothering with exams and do moderling.
At least at 18 they still have options.
dvtimes
12-10-06, 03:07 PM
In some ways I can understand people wanting the min age to be 21. The reason being is that in some plases drinking age is 21 plus serveral other laws. So if you are in an area where people are used to the local laws being 21, I can understand the thought.
But as I am in the UK and now young enough to find most laws alow ou to do most things at 18, I am used to that being an age where you are considered old enough to make desisions.
AllRuth
12-10-06, 04:44 PM
I've not met much UK talent but a lot of the US girls have had something happen to them in the past. That doesn't mean that porn is bad, it just means there are some sick fucks out there that abuse people.
God I hate that whole "you're a porn girl so you must have been abused as a kid" assumption. It's bullshit. I do porn. I was never abused as a kid.
Yeah there are a handful of abuse cases; sure. But lots of girls suffer abuse as a kid - period. The fact that you hear about from porn girls can be attributed to the; I'm naked and I'm going to tell you my entire life story syndrome, surely?
valgasmic
12-10-06, 05:06 PM
Sorry but whats there to debate here !
God I hate that whole "you're a porn girl so you must have been abused as a kid" assumption. It's bullshit. I do porn. I was never abused as a kid.
Yeah there are a handful of abuse cases; sure. But lots of girls suffer abuse as a kid - period. The fact that you hear about from porn girls can be attributed to the; I'm naked and I'm going to tell you my entire life story syndrome, surely?
You're right, I was just talking from my experience. I think that syndrome definitely exists and could explain a lot.
WordsforHire
12-10-06, 10:50 PM
I think this whole attitude that sixteen year olds can't take care of themslelves it a load of shit.
Being sixteen in this day and age is a lot different from when a lot of you were 16, I was sixteen just several years ago and it's not as clear cut as some of you make it out to be.
First of all, I was no more impressionable than a 35 year old woman holding a job. I was living away from home with my own wages payign my own bills making way for a family after having a somewhat unusual upbringing.
I certainly wasn't your average 16 year old and by no means was I immature. Not all girls that age are and the sooner people realise that the better. Obviously we are the minority but the fact stands not all 16 year olds are little girls.
They can raise families, hold down jobs, cope with day to day real life pressures and still they get called kids. Body age isn't always everything - mind maturity should be called into play too.
In Scotland the law is that you need to be 16 + to take topless/semi nude shots but they cannot be produced anywhere that the law is 18 + so pretty much they are for your own personal use and not for publication. I looked into this when I was a shit lot slimmer and wanted to purse a modelling career down that road. Obviously having the baby and starting a family changed my route and body size so it's not an option for me anymore but I was still more than capable of making these decisions for myself although as for signing a model release it would have had to be my guardian but, seeing as the pictures were for myself and not for publication that wouldn't have been an issue.
I hate when people think that young girls are immature and silly and will do anything for a quick buck now and then. We're not all like that...
Nottslad
12-11-06, 05:26 AM
So those pictures of Sam Fox aged 16 showing her tits are now illegal?
LOL I used to have one of those on my bedroom wall, I was 16 at the time though myself. Last I heard she was living with a dyke in Battersea or somewhere, I don't fancy her anymore.
Re the abused porn model thing - personally I've never met a porn model who has told me she's been abused as a kid.
Re the age of consent - raise it to 40, then I can have a few years off ;)
dvtimes
12-11-06, 11:57 AM
Re the abused porn model thing - personally I've never met a porn model who has told me she's been abused as a kid.
Must admit I never have too.
Hawkes7
12-12-06, 12:16 AM
I think 16
Without soundig like a nonce, but if the legal age of consent is 16 then why can't they be filmed/photographed at 16. Maybe make 16 for topless/nude and 18 for sex.
I agree but not necessarily for a webmaster point of view. I mean say your in a relationship with a 16/17 year old girl. It's legal to have sex with her but you can't take pics of you're own girlfriend. Its mad.
dvtimes
12-12-06, 12:23 AM
I agree but not necessarily for a webmaster point of view. I mean say your in a relationship with a 16/17 year old girl. It's legal to have sex with her but you can't take pics of you're own girlfriend. Its mad.No one is stoping you from taking pics of your girlfriend.
Just not publishing the shots.
Hawkes7
12-12-06, 12:25 AM
No one is stoping you from taking pics of your girlfriend.
Just not publishing the shots.
No I know a mate who was done for having pics of his 17 year old gf on his comp. He didn't share them or anything but was still done even though she consented to him taking them.
dvtimes
12-12-06, 12:45 AM
No I know a mate who was done for having pics of his 17 year old gf on his comp. He didn't share them or anything but was still done even though she consented to him taking them.
So how old is your mate and why did the police check out his pc.
They only check if they think a person has CP on his pc.
It sounds rather odd to me.
Hawkes7
12-12-06, 12:47 AM
He's 25. She told one of her girly friends and that friend reported him to the police. They checked his pc out and only found the pics of his gf but he still got done as she was under 18. He only got 2 months though which was fair considering. It was rather odd.
So how old is your mate and why did the police check out his pc.
They only check if they think a person has CP on his pc.
It sounds rather odd to me.
OT but they can check your pc for other things as well such as pirate software, hacking tools and copywrite offences, in fact i think they can check your pc for just about anything they want
TheShiftyEyedBastard
12-12-06, 05:46 AM
I'd say the mental difference between a 16 year old and an 18 year old, this day and age is nearly exactly the same.
Either drop the age to 16, or boost it to 21.
dvtimes
12-12-06, 02:00 PM
He's 25. She told one of her girly friends and that friend reported him to the police. They checked his pc out and only found the pics of his gf but he still got done as she was under 18. He only got 2 months though which was fair considering. It was rather odd.
Sorry, but 2 months for pics sounds like he is telling you not the whole story.
They do not put you in prison (UK) for a few pics of your girlfriend.
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