View Full Version : Moneybookers - a Warning!
Added Moneybookers as a subscription option to my website about 3 months ago. Everything was going fine until last week when I got 2 sales in 1 day through them. Suddenly they sent me an e-mail saying:
"We are writing you with regards to your moneybookers account status. We have noticed that you use your moneybookers account for business purposes, and we would like to suggest you to upgrade the account to business in order to gain merchant status.
To do so, please provide us with the following information:
Company name:
Company Registration No.:
Company Address :
Position in the company:
Furthermore, along with this information, please send us a copy of an Incorporate registration document and a copy of your valid picture ID (passport, driving licence), so that we can verify the changes.
Please, be informed that we apply 6% fee for 'receive money' transactionsfor adult merchants."
Well I'm a sole trader not a company, so I could not provide them with this information. When I told them this they shut my account down!
Luckily I had removed the money last week....but thought I should let you all know. Watch out when using Moneybookers!!
you should post that on Netpond, they have an awesome and well informed guy there, who will inform you that you are totally wrong, since Moneybookers is a UK company and only crappy US based ones would do that. :D
seriosly though, i just read a bit in their TOS, i cannot find the 6% rate at all. interesting.
hm, i did some more reading, there is no mentioning of special fees for adult transactions at all, unless i'm blind.
starts to feel like MB is pulling a PayPal, accept adult to gain a big user database and pull the plug at some point.
RicardoB
07-27-05, 06:30 PM
Thinkingthe same HF would like to hear what they have to say on it though ;)
I have posted this on Netpond and on another UK board. I have also e-mailed Moneybookers twice asking them for an official explanation. I've heard nothing.....
ukwebmasters
07-27-05, 06:58 PM
call them, their office number is on the site - always better than e-mailing and then hitting the boards.
:onguard:
call them, their office number is on the site - always better than e-mailing and then hitting the boards.
:onguard:
yes and no. in this case it's rather good, cos there is not the slightest hint there could be higher fees for 'receive money' transactions for adult merchants.
MB is known to be fine with adult, a few sponsors even pay out via MB, i know at least one adult hoster who accepts MB payments, one would think they'd be upfront about extra fees. they aren't as far as i can tell.
all i can find is this bit:
2. FEES. MONEYBOOKERS's current Fee Schedule for using the merchant gateway service is posted on the Merchant Service Centre Website (http://www.moneybookers.com/merchant). Unless otherwise stated, fees quoted are in EUROS.
at http://www.moneybookers.com/merchant/en/terms.html
http://www.moneybookers.com/merchant then leads us to http://www.moneybookers.com/merchant/en/fees.html where we find this bit on fees:
Standard:
2% (transfer must be covered by user balance or paid via offline bank transfer)
Optional:
5% if transfer is debited from user's verified credit card or bank account (direct debit).
8% if transfer is debited from user's unverified credit card or bank account (direct debit).
If you want to use any of the optional services, please send an email to merchantservices@moneybookers.com inluding (i) your Website URL, (ii) the country in which you are located and (iii) your Moneybookers account email.
i fail to see any higher fees for adult, i certainly would not even have bothered to ask, since MB is known to deal with adult related poyments. in other words i would have ended up in a rather shitty situation once it came up i did accept adult related payments. prolly with money locked, just like with PayPal? highly worrying.
at this point, i'm very glad we never implemented them anywhere. i'll follow this with peaked interest.
Well over on Netpond Dave from Moneybookers has told me to contact him, so I've sent him an e-mail. Sounds like he may be able to do something about this. Will keep you posted.
RicardoB
07-27-05, 08:50 PM
Please dp Jay, I'll keep the pressure on at Netpond cause the questions raised demand answers
Well over on Netpond Dave from Moneybookers has told me to contact him, so I've sent him an e-mail. Sounds like he may be able to do something about this. Will keep you posted.
you should try and nail him down to answering on the 6% for adult businesses though. it's nowhere on their FAQ or TOS. not even the slightest hint of any charges apart from those listed.
it's great if it works out for you, best of luck, but as it is now, everyone could be next and have to go through the whole mess as well.
This would suck as they have spent so much time trying to get ex pay pal adult webmasters on board.
RicardoB
07-27-05, 10:27 PM
you should try and nail him down to answering on the 6% for adult businesses though. it's nowhere on their FAQ or TOS. not even the slightest hint of any charges apart from those listed.
it's great if it works out for you, best of luck, but as it is now, everyone could be next and have to go through the whole mess as well.
What do you think I've been doing? Now to get dave to answer
What do you think I've been doing? Now to get dave to answer
we all know the routine, questions from people less related to a case are easily ignored. Jay has been confronted with the 6% adult fees directly though, so they have to show him where those are regulated. ;)
OK I've now heard from Dave and my account has been re-opened. Here is what was said:
"Your account has been reopened. We are happy for you to accept moneybookers on your sites:
www.amateuruniform.com
www.realpunting.com
But as part of our regulatory process we must receive the following within the next 7 days:
- A copy of your photo ID, e.g. Passport or Drivers Licence
- A copy of proof of address, e.g. Bank statement or utility bill
- Access to your websites to check legality of content
The documents can be sent to us via email or fax. Upon completion of the above, your websites will be added to our shopping directory - http://www.moneybookers.com/app/directory.pl
If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us."
I have no problem being "verified" so that's OK, but there was nothing about fees, so I have e-mailed Dave again asking him to confirm what the fees will be. In particular I asked if the 6% fee was just for the "upgrade" Merchant account they wanted me to have or is it for any subscriptions on Adult websites. I'm off on a shoot today, but I'll try and post updates when I can.
RicardoB
07-28-05, 09:52 AM
Update:
This was just posted at Netpond from Dave at MB:
Dear All,
First of all, just to confirm that yes we're based in the UK so apologies for the slight delay in response but I cannot work all night
Please see the points below which I hope will answer your questions:
- Where there are regular transactions which are made in exchange for goods and/or services this is deemed as business use. We have several means of identifying such activity but upon identification we are required to complete verification of the user.
- For adult merchants accepting payment for content/membership sites we change a processing fee of 6%. Bearing in mind the nature of the industry and the competition we feel that this is a very competitive rate. This does not include merchants selling, for example, traffic or hosting, or receiving affiliate payments. Our intention is not to hide this fee. Rather we want to be clear about your business as part of the verification process. However, your feedback is valuable and we may make changes to the published schedule on our site.
- The fact that an account was locked in this case was regretable. It was a mistake on behalf our staff and we have addressed it internally.
- Personal/Business Accounts: When you open an account with us you have the option to open either a personal or business account. BOTH can be used for business purposes. You should only open a business account if you have a registered company.
Regards,
Dave - MB
Discuss ;)
just speed read the thread on NP, still doesn't convince me 100%.
RicardoB
07-28-05, 09:59 PM
His replies made sense to me. I think it 's not to smart not to put the 6% for adult on the site(as that would actualy be a selling piont!!) but I don't think he is/whas bullshitting.
NumptyNuts
07-29-05, 02:55 PM
This is called KYC - Know Your Customer -
As Money Bookers are a Small Money Issuer they have to comply with FSA regulations to ensure people are not laundering money.
ON the subject of the mail they sent re upgrading your account this is also being done by Nochex. With the way card scheme regulations are going all of the PSP's will have to offer MID's as apposed to being an aggregator.
Here all the KYC documentation from the FSA
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/other/ml_domestic_banking.pdf
Its dead boring though there was also talk of the FSA dropping this process completely. Personally I think it should be kept in place esp for online processing as it creates a hoop for fraudsters to jump through.
there is nothing to be said against their suggestion to upgrade to a merchant account. the disturbing part is they mention adult related fees that aren't listed anywhere on their site to this point and would not have been taken into account even if the upgrade to a merchant account had been done.
Alf Garnet
07-29-05, 03:50 PM
This is called KYC
I thought that was chicken
RicardoB
07-29-05, 05:18 PM
I thought that was chicken
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm chicken ya makin me hungry :p
I don't mind being "verified", but Moneybookers did not do this in my case. They said "what's your company, etc." and when I said I didn't have one they shut down my account. If they had said can we "verify" you I would have said yes that's fine. In fact that is what has happened now and my account is back.
OK I've now heard from Dave and my account has been re-opened. Here is what was said:
"Your account has been reopened. We are happy for you to accept moneybookers on your sites:
www.amateuruniform.com
www.realpunting.com
But as part of our regulatory process we must receive the following within the next 7 days:
- A copy of your photo ID, e.g. Passport or Drivers Licence
- A copy of proof of address, e.g. Bank statement or utility bill
- Access to your websites to check legality of content
The documents can be sent to us via email or fax. Upon completion of the above, your websites will be added to our shopping directory - http://www.moneybookers.com/app/directory.pl
If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us."
I have no problem being "verified" so that's OK, but there was nothing about fees, so I have e-mailed Dave again asking him to confirm what the fees will be. In particular I asked if the 6% fee was just for the "upgrade" Merchant account they wanted me to have or is it for any subscriptions on Adult websites. I'm off on a shoot today, but I'll try and post updates when I can.
any updates on this then? did it work out? what CC's can they process? what about these 6% adult fee?
Shandy McAndy
08-03-05, 05:36 PM
any updates on this then? did it work out? what CC's can they process? what about these 6% adult fee?
What he said
and another firm bump. :duck:
The update is they have re-activated my account and are happy for me to accept subscriptions for my adult sites. The fee for this will be 6%, but as Moneybookers says this is a lot lower than other processors, so I'm uisng them again as a subscription option. Not had anybody sign up yet using them, although had one guy interested who is in Malaysia....
so is it the 2% + 5%/8% for the CC or direct debit (as described HERE (http://www.moneybookers.com/merchant/en/fees.html)) plus 6% for adult transactions - so in worst case 16% ? or do the 6% replace the 2% ?
and where are the 6% regulated? i cannot find anything online yet, if one was bitchy, one could think this is just a fee they made up on the fly.
and what CCs can you process?
Well...this is what I've been told:
"For adult merchants accepting payment for content/membership sites we change a processing fee of 6%. Bearing in mind the nature of the industry and the competition we feel that this is a very competitive rate."
Therefore, you will be charged 6% on money received on your account. If you need any further clarification, please let me know.
Kind regards,
Dave
Moneybookers.com
well, logic would have it that the 6% then replace the usual 2 %, so in worst case, if you have opted for the CC and direct debit payments, it would be 14%.
if that includes VISA, then it is a nice rate, if not, it's not differing much from CCBill or Verotel.
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