How many affiliates one day will become site owners?

[Paul Markham]

For those who can crack it running a paysite is very profitable and the two main components are content and traffic. Design, programing and billing are important but fairly easy, compared to traffic and content, to put into place.

So how many of todays affiliates are likely to open paysites?

I know of many who already are and a lot of paysite owners are also affiliates.

Discuss.

[ristac]

For those who can crack it running a paysite is very profitable and the two main components are content and traffic. Design, programing and billing are important but fairly easy, compared to traffic and content, to put into place.

So how many of todays affiliates are likely to open paysites?

I know of many who already are and a lot of paysite owners are also affiliates.

Discuss. I would have to disagree, anyone can buy content and I do not find it too hard to attract visits, however, good site design and making that surfer wanting to part with the cash is the hardest thing. If you had a bricks and mortar business or shop and 1000 people came into it a day, if only 5 people made a purchase you would wonder what was going wrong. Making that person sign-up is the hardest and this needs to be achieved by design.

In reply to the initial question, I would not rule myself out but it is getting out of the comfy zone and taking the gamble. Serious money to set your hosting up and gain good content, if you fail it is money down the drain.

I have three bricks and mortar ventures, it will soon be down to two as after 4 years one of them has taken a backward step (a tanning & nail salon) and I cannot keep up with them as well as my online bits and bobs. I could see myself down the line retiring early to a hot destination making online porn my full time job so maybe then I will take the plunge.

[Paul Markham]

I would have to disagree, anyone can buy content and I do not find it too hard to attract visits, however, good site design and making that surfer wanting to part with the cash is the hardest thing. If you had a bricks and mortar business or shop and 1000 people came into it a day, if only 5 people made a purchase you would wonder what was going wrong. Making that person sign-up is the hardest and this needs to be achieved by design.
If you have the right content, design is not so important. Or do you think they buy because they like a pretty design to jerk off to?

[Cardinal_Sin]

If you have the right content, design is not so important. Or do you think they buy because they like a pretty design to jerk off to?

Design is by far the hardest - You can throw up the best pics in the World and it will not guarantee a single sign up -
Sign ups come not only from the correct pics, but from tempting text - Together, they lead the surfer with his cock in hand to the join page -

[ristac]

If you have the right content, design is not so important. Or do you think they buy because they like a pretty design to jerk off to?

How do they know what content you have if the design is wrong?

You might have 50 images on one page, 38 of a girl sitting on a sofa 10 of her in lingerie and two naked. The next guy might have 10 images, all naked and provocative, the guy with 10 will get more interest.

The same applies to a bricks and mortar business, a plain cannot see through window or a nicely dressed one with goods on display..

[JT]

If you have the right content, design is not so important. Or do you think they buy because they like a pretty design to jerk off to?

What makes you think good design is "pretty" design? It can be pretty and be good, it can be awfull looking and be good. Good design is any design that helps sell your product. Its all a part of your marketing

[JT]

My guess is as many people come in to this game wanting to start a pay site, as much as those wanting to become affiliates

[Paul Markham]

Design is by far the hardest - You can throw up the best pics in the World and it will not guarantee a single sign up -
Sign ups come not only from the correct pics, but from tempting text - Together, they lead the surfer with his cock in hand to the join page -
I think design is important, but not as important as the content.

Get the content wrong and the first impression the surfer gets will taint everything after that.

Design needs to show the surfer the content, get it wrong and it will harm the over all presentation. Get the content wrong and the best design in the world is not going to get you up to the point you would of been at.

It's all about getting the balance right.

I think product is more important then presentation, do you think presentation is more important then product?

[Rosie]

I think product is more important then presentation, do you think presentation is more important then product?

I think the really sucessful paysites are the ones who have a good product well presented.

[aaron_sterlingcash]

Id say content is key not a design, fact is punters just want to come and have a wank they dont care abnout fancy tours if the content is what they wanted.

[JT]

Id say content is key not a design, fact is punters just want to come and have a wank they dont care abnout fancy tours if the content is what they wanted.

Isnt realised by the design? Why is it when we talk about good design do we presume fancy.

[redwhiteandblue]

Id say content is key not a design, fact is punters just want to come and have a wank they dont care abnout fancy tours if the content is what they wanted.

So how are they going to know the content is what they want? They won't know unless you tell them, and that is what design is all about.

[Merlin]

Interesting question, Paul. I'm an affiliate (one of yours actually :-) who would quite like to operate a paysite but several things put me off doing so. Like others have said I reckon that a really good paysite is made by good content (unique if possible) and regular updates - preferably daily. I believe that would require a level of commitment that wouldn't fit into my life just now - particularly if I produced the content myself. That sounds like a full time (plus some) job whereas as an affiliate I can put in as much or as little effort as I choose depending on whatever else I'm doing at the time.

[Geezer]

2

[SimonSubAms]

Anyone can open a paysite but making money is a different matter.
You make it sound a doddle.

[SGS]

Anyone can open a paysite but making money is a different matter.
You make it sound a doddle.

I was thinking the same :)

[Bradderzzz]

Good god no.

Too much hard work.

Seriously tho - it has crossed my mind - but factors such as start up costs. Flakeyness of models have put me off.

I think as well - my lack of love for porn paysites. I wouldn't and have never wanted to sign up to one (Apart from to grab promo content). Its not an area of business i find interesting. I much prefer building sites and leaving them to make money. No need to deal with members - credit card scrubbing - constant updates. There is easily more than enough money in affiliate based sales for me to have more money than i could ever need.

[Paul Markham]

So how are they going to know the content is what they want? They won't know unless you tell them, and that is what design is all about.
Do yourself a favor and don't open a paysite. Or do galleries. :gaylords:

If you think telling a surfer it's good, great content that will blow him mind away, when he can see it's not what do you think he will be doing?

Text is the trigger to signing up, not the gun. If you get what I mean.

Never under estimate the buyer, unless you want to lose him, he's possibly been buying porn longer than you've been selling it. He's very probably been consuming it longer than you've been selling it.

Most of us are selling a 30 day, $30 membership. The guys looking to do a one off wank are unlikely to spend $30 for it unless they are very rich, stupid or need something weird.

They will have been honing their tastes for years, they will know the difference between a dog and a fox. You telling them she's a fox, when he can see she's a dog is not going to convince anyone.

Design and text enhance the product, like mint sauce on roast lamb. They do not make horse meat taste like roast lamb.

[Paul Markham]

Anyone can open a paysite but making money is a different matter.
You make it sound a doddle.
It's not as tough as many would have you believe.

If you have the skills, experience, talent and money. Not saying it's easy, just saying if you already have the traffic and content you could do it.

One of the reasons so many fail is they don't have what's needed.

Interesting question, Paul. I'm an affiliate (one of yours actually :-) who would quite like to operate a paysite but several things put me off doing so. Like others have said I reckon that a really good paysite is made by good content (unique if possible) and regular updates - preferably daily. I believe that would require a level of commitment that wouldn't fit into my life just now - particularly if I produced the content myself. That sounds like a full time (plus some) job whereas as an affiliate I can put in as much or as little effort as I choose depending on whatever else I'm doing at the time.Very true it does take a bit of commitment. But then so do most things when the rewards are higher.

[SimonSubAms]

The guys looking to do a one off wank are unlikely to spend $30 for it unless they are very rich, stupid or need something weird.

Are you saying noone will signup for your/anyones site for a quick wank unless they're rich, stupid or need something weird?
That means my sites can only go for the rich and stupid customers...bummer!

Many people sign up every day for a quick wank and are happy to pay $30 for the pleasure. If it does the trick they'll be back for more. They don't need to be rich to pay $30 and it doesn't need anything weird to float most peoples boats....as for the stupid comment, well, thats just ignorant.

[Paul Markham]

Are you saying noone will signup for your/anyones site for a quick wank unless they're rich, stupid or need something weird?
That means my sites can only go for the rich and stupid customers...bummer!

Many people sign up every day for a quick wank and are happy to pay $30 for the pleasure. If it does the trick they'll be back for more. They don't need to be rich to pay $30 and it doesn't need anything weird to float most peoples boats....as for the stupid comment, well, thats just ignorant.
Look up the word "Unlikely" Then look up the word "Never"

I think then you might read my statement a bit different.

Yes I'm sure there are some, in fact many, who will sign up on your site and spend $30 for 15 to 30 minutes of pleasure. But the VAST MAJORITY note the word is majority is not "everyone" will be off to the free sites for their porn.

[SimonSubAms]

It's not as tough as many would have you believe.

Opening a paysite is easy, I agree.

If you have the skills, experience, talent and money. Not saying it's easy, just saying if you already have the traffic and content you could do it.

Ah, so it's not that easy then?

One of the reasons so many fail is they don't have what's needed.

Which is the skills, experience, talent and money.

Now I'm confused...is it easy or not?

[SimonSubAms]

Look up the word "Unlikely" Then look up the word "Never"

un·like·ly (ŭn-līk'lē)
Not likely; improbable.

You never used the word "Never"
What you said was "unlikely" which means not likely, improbable.

I'm saying it's not improbable as it happens regularly, in which case I wouldn't say it was unlikely, I would say it's closer to likely.

[aaron_sterlingcash]

Isnt realised by the design? Why is it when we talk about good design do we presume fancy.

Maybe I didnt explain correctly, of course design is important, I didnt mean a facy design whatever design fits the niche should be used, but no one really mentioned content quality thats all.

[xcite-tv]

This seems to have become another content versus design versus traffic thread

Paul asked how many affiliates may become site owners ?


Affiliates become site owners because they are not making enough money as affiliates or because they see the sales made by site owners and think they can throw all their hard earned traffic at their own site and it will sell as well as the site they originally pointed that traffic too....maybe it will, maybe it wont.

Site owners become affiliates because their site isnt making enough money..

[Paul Markham]

Opening a paysite is easy, I agree.

Ah, so it's not that easy then?

Which is the skills, experience, talent and money.

Now I'm confused...is it easy or not?
You keep mis quoting me. Get what I'm saying and stop twisting it.

Opening a paysite is easy, well fairly, making it profitable takes skills, experience, talent and money.

Why not show us your site and we can see what it is that is "Likely" to get guys spending $30 for a short time. Because lots here have a problem selling a months memberships for $30. Your knowledge would be greatly beneficial.

Or are you going to keep it a secret?

[Jel]

It's an impossible question to answer accurately, but yes of course some affiliates will become paysite owners one day, just as sure as some affiliates drop out of the business for one reason or another, and as sure as some affiliates won't because they are comfortable with the level they are at and don't want the added 'hassle' of being a site owner.

I hope to become a paysite owner when I grow up, and that's been the goal since I started :)

[Merlin]

You have to start somewhere in the adult business and starting as an affiliate is as good a place to start as any if someone's aiming to build a paysite someday. probably better than leaping straight in and building a paysite on the mistaken assumption that if you build it members will sign up in their droves. As an affiliate you learn a heck of a lot about marketing, traffic, what content sells and what doesn't, what type of sites exist already and, more importantly, where there might be unexploited niches.

[Jel]

You have to start somewhere in the adult business and starting as an affiliate is as good a place to start as any if someone's aiming to build a paysite someday. probably better than leaping straight in and building a paysite on the mistaken assumption that if you build it members will sign up in their droves. As an affiliate you learn a heck of a lot about marketing, traffic, what content sells and what doesn't, what type of sites exist already and, more importantly, where there might be unexploited niches.

A damn good post :cheers2:

Do your apprenticeship then work your way up :)

[FFS]

Good god no.

Too much hard work.

Seriously tho - it has crossed my mind - but factors such as start up costs. Flakeyness of models have put me off.

I think as well - my lack of love for porn paysites. I wouldn't and have never wanted to sign up to one (Apart from to grab promo content). Its not an area of business i find interesting. I much prefer building sites and leaving them to make money. No need to deal with members - credit card scrubbing - constant updates. There is easily more than enough money in affiliate based sales for me to have more money than i could ever need.

Same thoughts here. I simply don't have the commitment required to make a success of a pay site, especially as it's easy enough to make good money in other ways from this business.

Nor do I want to become an arrogant bastard like PM :D

[Merlin]

A damn good post :cheers2:

:thumbsup:

Well thank you, sir. The tenner's in the post. ;-)

[SimonSubAms]

Opening a paysite is easy, well fairly, making it profitable takes skills, experience, talent and money.

Why not show us your site and we can see what it is that is "Likely" to get guys spending $30 for a short time. Because lots here have a problem selling a months memberships for $30. Your knowledge would be greatly beneficial.

Or are you going to keep it a secret?

It's no secret.
I run a number of paysites but mainly concentrate on Suburban Amateurs (http://www.suburbanamateurs.com) at the moment.
I have others that do very well and a big project that's almost ready to launch (possibly today, after 6 months of work!) that I'm very excited about.

My sites are niches I know and enjoy, British girls, stockings, lingerie, uniforms etc..the shoots are a lot of fun for the girls and that shows in the content.

[SimonSubAms]

You have to start somewhere in the adult business and starting as an affiliate is as good a place to start as any if someone's aiming to build a paysite someday. probably better than leaping straight in and building a paysite on the mistaken assumption that if you build it members will sign up in their droves. As an affiliate you learn a heck of a lot about marketing, traffic, what content sells and what doesn't, what type of sites exist already and, more importantly, where there might be unexploited niches.

Exactly how I started :)
Good post.

[Grisey]

You have to start somewhere in the adult business and starting as an affiliate is as good a place to start as any if someone's aiming to build a paysite someday. probably better than leaping straight in and building a paysite on the mistaken assumption that if you build it members will sign up in their droves. As an affiliate you learn a heck of a lot about marketing, traffic, what content sells and what doesn't, what type of sites exist already and, more importantly, where there might be unexploited niches.

Nice Post man

How many people tell a newbie to start as an affiliate so they get a feel of how to manage sites and what converts and what doesn't. Almost everyone does.

The above then can go back to JT's post where he says " I would never open a site that that i didn't already have traffic for" You can back that up With gezzer thread about "whats makes a site succesful"

To answer your question paul : As many that want tobe, some affiliates make nice $$$$ from being an affiliate and don't what the extra hassle of dealing with paysite stuff.

[Bradderzzz]

To answer your question paul : As many that want tobe, some affiliates make nice $$$$ from being an affiliate and don't what the extra hassle of dealing with paysite stuff.

amen. :gaylords:

[TheShiftyEyedBastard]

If this thread wins the B&B contest, you totally owe me some free content ;)

[gawdi]

This seems to have become another content versus design versus traffic thread



True... but in many ways that sentence reflects the reason why most people wont become a successful site owner... the issues surrounding being successful are quite 'grey' rather than being 'black and white'...........

Design, content and traffic are important, different types of sites will require them in different ratios........... the trick is to find out which ratios work for you... then you need to plug in a load of other factors, some of them being down to the individual:

- risk - being prepared to take it
- determination sticking at it and getting over knock backs and problems
- product differentiation avoiding being a 'me2' site
- money to invest it does take a lot more than you originally think
- pricing - getting it right not being to cheap, but not being too expensive
- Being ruthless - you gotta win at all costs, being prepared to junk what you've already done and try something else.
- Being disciplined, to get done what needs to be done, by when it needs to be done by.

I expect there are more of these other factors....

There no recipie for success.... some affiliates will move into opening thier own site and be successful - but the majority will try and bomb.......

[xcite-tv]

True... but in many ways that sentence reflects the reason why most people wont become a successful site owner... the issues surrounding being successful are quite 'grey' rather than being 'black and white'...........

Design, content and traffic are important, different types of sites will require them in different ratios........... the trick is to find out which ratios work for you... then you need to plug in a load of other factors, some of them being down to the individual:

- risk - being prepared to take it
- determination sticking at it and getting over knock backs and problems
- product differentiation avoiding being a 'me2' site
- money to invest it does take a lot more than you originally think
- pricing - getting it right not being to cheap, but not being too expensive
- Being ruthless - you gotta win at all costs, being prepared to junk what you've already done and try something else.
- Being disciplined, to get done what needs to be done, by when it needs to be done by.

I expect there are more of these other factors....

There no recipie for success.... some affiliates will move into opening thier own site and be successful - but the majority will try and bomb.......



Good Info :gold:

[Cardinal_Sin]

Anyone can open a paysite but making money is a different matter.
You make it sound a doddle.

Of course it's a doddle...



If you have a mountain of content you have already made a shit load of profit on selling and reselling then adding to the bargain basement to sell it to every tgp submitter - You can build a site for ZERO outlay - Which is what Mr average webmasters CAN'T do.
And - As you have a huge bank of adult webmaster emails (Because you won't let them onto your site until they give you this, then of course you have a huge amount of potential partners to spam and tempt with a shitload of free content to spam your site (which, of course, Mr average newbe webmaster doesn't have)- Of course, then it IS A PIECE OF FUCKING CAKE - If you don't have all that to start with, it is a totally different game - Markham has his head too far up his ass to realise he was able to build and promote a paysite for the cost of a design - I am just amazed he didn't do it 10 years ago and had 150 sites online now -
Anyone starting in this industry and wants to make big money has to spend out a lot of cash and he also has to have the ability to sit infront of his computer 18 hours a day and work very fucking hard - Even then there are no guarantees.

[SimonSubAms]

Of course it's a doddle...

If you have a mountain of content you have already made a shit load of profit on selling and reselling then adding to the bargain basement to sell it to every tgp submitter - You can build a site for ZERO outlay - Which is what Mr average webmasters CAN'T do.

True...and why it's "unlikely" his surfers buy on impulse as by the time they've been through the tour they still haven't found a set they haven't seen somewhere before.

[Paul Markham]

Of course it's a doddle...



If you have a mountain of content you have already made a shit load of profit on selling and reselling then adding to the bargain basement to sell it to every tgp submitter - You can build a site for ZERO outlay - Which is what Mr average webmasters CAN'T do.
And - As you have a huge bank of adult webmaster emails (Because you won't let them onto your site until they give you this, then of course you have a huge amount of potential partners to spam and tempt with a shitload of free content to spam your site (which, of course, Mr average newbe webmaster doesn't have)- Of course, then it IS A PIECE OF FUCKING CAKE - If you don't have all that to start with, it is a totally different game - Markham has his head too far up his ass to realise he was able to build and promote a paysite for the cost of a design - I am just amazed he didn't do it 10 years ago and had 150 sites online now -
Anyone starting in this industry and wants to make big money has to spend out a lot of cash and he also has to have the ability to sit infront of his computer 18 hours a day and work very fucking hard - Even then there are no guarantees.

Yes I have a lot of content, which could of been bought by anyone wanting to start a site of their own. Do you think starting a business should be free or cheap. I wish I had sold it to every webmaster but as you well know the vast majority of webmasters do not buy content.

Yes I have a bank of email addresses, but when I spam them I get more site joins than affiliate sign ups. Maybe there are more surfers in there than I originally thought. My best traffic comes from the review sites I submitted to, the best affiliates come the review sites. Affiliates see the reviews and decide to send us traffic. You do not need to sign up to the content store to view it.

Yes I had content, I had money, I had experience in porn. What I had NONE of was traffic and knowledge of the traffic side of the business. Any affiliate going from sending traffic to others to sending traffic to himself will have traffic and traffic generation knowledge. Or are you saying this is not hard to work out?

Seems someone is scared of something. :Penis

[Paul Markham]

True...and why it's "unlikely" his surfers buy on impulse as by the time they've been through the tour they still haven't found a set they haven't seen somewhere before.
Actually having our sets on other sites has worked as a benefit for us.

A lot of the top teen sites have SOME of our content. Karups, Teen Dream, Sapphic, Lightspeed and others buy to provide value to their members. But none of them have everything. So the surfers have seen some of the content and I would guess actually liked what they saw. They then hit the site with the complete collection and realsie they've found the "Home Site" they join.

It's about the over all appeal, I think.

[Paul Markham]

It's no secret.
I run a number of paysites but mainly concentrate on Suburban Amateurs (http://www.suburbanamateurs.com) at the moment.
I have others that do very well and a big project that's almost ready to launch (possibly today, after 6 months of work!) that I'm very excited about.

My sites are niches I know and enjoy, British girls, stockings, lingerie, uniforms etc..the shoots are a lot of fun for the girls and that shows in the content.
Nice site.

[SimonSubAms]

Nice site.

Thanks

[Cardinal_Sin]

[QUOTE=Paul Markham]Yes I have a lot of content, which could of been bought by anyone wanting to start a site of their own. Do you think starting a business should be free or cheap. I wish I had sold it to every webmaster but as you well know the vast majority of webmasters do not buy content.

Yes I have a bank of email addresses, but when I spam them I get more site joins than affiliate sign ups. Maybe there are more surfers in there than I originally thought. My best traffic comes from the review sites I submitted to, the best affiliates come the review sites. Affiliates see the reviews and decide to send us traffic. You do not need to sign up to the content store to view it.

Yes I had content, I had money, I had experience in porn. What I had NONE of was traffic and knowledge of the traffic side of the business. Any affiliate going from sending traffic to others to sending traffic to himself will have traffic and traffic generation knowledge. Or are you saying this is not hard to work out?

Seems someone is scared of something.

How fucking old are you?

I am trying to show that anyone beginning from the start, is not walking into an easy pile of cash - You had huge advantages over newbies - Also - Go back over to gfy and research some of your old posts asking for help setting up paysites -

[Paul Markham]

How fucking old are you?

I am trying to show that anyone beginning from the start, is not walking into an easy pile of cash - You had huge advantages over newbies - Also - Go back over to gfy and research some of your old posts asking for help setting up paysites -
56, how old are you and what the fuck has that got to do with it?

Seems to me you are twisting what I'm saying. I did not say newbies in fact I said

How many affiliates one day will become site owners?

As English is probably not your first language I will forgive you. :gaylords:

I would assume an affiliate who progresses to become a paysite owner would of built up a stream of traffic in the niche they are opening the site in, has built a lot of contacts, accumulated content and gained a lot of knowledge. I did not explain it like that at the beginning because I assumed, wrongly it seems, that no one would dream I was talking about newbies.

You also have a nice site.

[kimmykickass]

[QUOTE=Paul Markham]Yes I have a lot of content, which could of been bought by anyone wanting to start a site of their own.

I was under the impression from another forum that you shot your own content?

[cock-a-leekie]

Aficionados buy with expertise from expert suppliers. If you can go a long way in to truly understanding your customers needs, you can supply them yourself, (assuming you have a product).

So the question is how many affiliates can really understand and appreciate their customers fetish, and of those that can, how many are in a position to supply them content they’ve never seen before? NOT MANY.

Yes you can re-package/re-brand old material, but unless you are some kind of traffic wiz-kid with dozens of sites, you’ll be a very small player.

[Paul Markham]

[QUOTE=Cardinal_Sin]

I was under the impression from another forum that you shot your own content?
We do shoot our own content, which we sell on the content store, have a paysite, sell to DVD companies, mobile phones and magazines.

We also buy in non exclusive, if we like it, for the paysite.

[Johnny Kleenexxx]

Anyone starting in this industry and wants to make big money has to spend out a lot of cash and he also has to have the ability to sit infront of his computer 18 hours a day and work very fucking hard - Even then there are no guarantees.
i agree,

anyone starting out in a rush to make big bank is deluded . . it's not a pimp bizz anymore
i'm just slowly building content & traffic simultaneously . . Rome wasn't built in a day etc etc
its good to have income from other sources for paysites, relieves initial pressure
for some this could be existing affiliate sales revenue, for others it could be mainstream interests
learning curve is bastard huge . . content is the least of my fuckin' worries lol
file sharers and content thieves are on my shitlist . . they do some big damage in certain niches

if i had my time again i would definitely think twice before building paysites,
particularly as some affiliates make equally good $$ with a fraction of the aggro
fewer surfers wanna pay for porn, they are wiser, it's not the 90's
the paysite industry really should make a stand against the mass filesharing
otherwise many traditional paysites risk becoming obsolete and everything
will become ad-driven p2p . . imvho

[Paul Markham]

The biggest problem is 90% of sites do exactly the same as each other.

Imagine walking down a street and 100 people trying to sell you after shave, all smells the same, just a different box and even them are similar.

The surfer is increasingly wary of us because of the times he has been ripped off, we opened our site and showed him what we have for him. Ratios improved by nearly 100%.

Simple but effective.

Most buy in or shoot some exclusive content that is no different than on 10,000 other sites, put up a tour the same as 10,000 other sites and wonder why surfers don't sign up.

[Johnny Kleenexxx]

The surfer is increasingly wary of us because of the times he has been ripped off, we opened our site and showed him what we have for him. Ratios improved by nearly 100%.

Simple but effective.

Thats an interesting concept that i was thinking of using (stealing)
Basically a members area front end but without full access (alt tour)
more of a "lay it all out on the line" honest sales approach makes sense,
it obviously worked for you so that's broadly applicable advice in action - all good.
i have used simple members area screencaps on one of my fetish sites
and the response was positive, thinking of applying it across the board.

speaking in defense of the unoriginal & deluded among us who also work hard . .
mmmm . . to a certain extent i agree that many of us are not particularly groundbreaking
but if the membership prices are realistic and offer reasonable value for surfer money
namely the surfer decides the content offered (regardless of originality) is worth the initial sign up
then no robbery is involved imo . . alright, so its not BIG time but it can still float our little boats.

it's gotta take a seriously sticky & deep archive of years of content and/or
unique & regularly updated highly interactive sites to even hope for high retention
the way things are in this bizz . . things are as tight as a nuns chuff.

right now i have neither in place, but slowly it will come like i said,
no rush, just learning the ropes and putting in the hours like the rest of us.
If people pay more for your stuff than what it cost overall to produce then its a small ROI
and a reasonable first step for any noob . . a solid base of traffic comes with time and sustained effort
a necessary beast that can also be bought, bribed, but preferably grass roots generated. (apparently)

i do sometimes question the wisdom of the accepted route (on topic at last)
by that i mean . . Affiliate first (build traffic) then push a paysite on the back
of it (obviously in the same niche) but nevertheless your paysite either
becomes "yet another" top banner advertiser upsell from your freesites
and you feed your new paysite from those residual traffic sources OR
you overnight slap a new paysite on a previous freesite link domain . .
will that pay any dividends long term ? . . isn't hardlink traffic fucked up ?

If success was just about having traffic wouldn't more affiliates be opening paysites ?
content production & traffic generation are 2 completely separate learning curves
ok so traffic is "King" but his "Queen" must be decent content with a proven demand
marry the two, throw in some luck, and there's still light on the horizon imvho

just waffling here, don't expect specific answers from anyone in particular . .
really don't wanna stir up the old "what is King" debate again either btw,
but has to be said that many adult webmasters just don't have the front to produce
a nice anonymous life behind a monitor appeals more than the shooting.

People also evolve and learn from mistakes . . if many of us could turn back the clock
you can bet your bottom dollar we would have done some things much differently,
luckily many of us are stubborn enough to ignore the harsh realities . .


. . and we like girls bums.

[Paul Markham]

No worries, take the idea and develop it. If more did the same this would be a lot more profitable industry for those in it. Yes we would lose a few, but if you can't cut it what's the problem.

The traffic v content discussion is done to death. But here are my thoughts.

We see and know the world as we see and know the world. What I see and know is what I see and know. What you see and know is what you see and know. I can't teach you to see and know, because of what you see and know. Both are right though and both wrong.

For us traffic is KING, because we have all the content that converts we need. Well for today we do. :crown:

[Grisey]

The biggest problem is 90% of sites do exactly the same as each other.

Imagine walking down a street and 100 people trying to sell you after shave, all smells the same, just a different box and even them are similar.

The surfer is increasingly wary of us because of the times he has been ripped off, we opened our site and showed him what we have for him. Ratios improved by nearly 100%.

Simple but effective.

Most buy in or shoot some exclusive content that is no different than on 10,000 other sites, put up a tour the same as 10,000 other sites and wonder why surfers don't sign up.

Why does every thread have to be you talking about " My great site sells like fuck"

You might not of realised paul, but

WE DON'T FUCKING CARE

[Paul Markham]

Why does every thread have to be you talking about " My great site sells like fuck"

You might not of realised paul, but

WE DON'T FUCKING CARE
Why doesn't your site do so well?

I'm telling people how I do it in the hope that some copy me and the market moves upwards.

If you're sites are so good why don't you try doing the same and opening them up for surfers to see. I'm sure your affiliates will appreciate it. Assuming your ratios improve.

OR DON'T YOU FUCKING CARE?[/QUOTE]

That was so easy. :gaylords:

[Bradderzzz]

I think Grisey has a point - all your posts seem to end up as a less than subtle attempt at spam. Grisey has paysites but doesn't feel the fucking need to bang on about how great they are 24-7 on boards. To the point of it getting annoying.

[Rosie]

I have paysites. They're great. I get to hit people :bonk2:

[JT]

I have paysites. They're great. I get to hit people :bonk2:

its great when your hobby is also your job innit

[Paul Markham]

I think Grisey has a point - all your posts seem to end up as a less than subtle attempt at spam. Grisey has paysites but doesn't feel the fucking need to bang on about how great they are 24-7 on boards. To the point of it getting annoying.
So you think me telling people how I do it is not educational. OK good point.

I rarely jst tell people my site, work or anything is great. I tell them why it works. If you can't see that then fine, if you can't follow my advice then who's problem is that.

And yes I'm here to spam. What's the point otherwise?

Wish my hobby was my job. Was never like that.

[Rosie]

Hmmm BDSM was never my hobby so to speak. It's not like I do kinky knitting :)
However it is my lifestyle/sexuality so, yeah, from that viewpoint it IS great.

[Grisey]

Why doesn't your site do so well?

I'm telling people how I do it in the hope that some copy me and the market moves upwards.

If you're sites are so good why don't you try doing the same and opening them up for surfers to see. I'm sure your affiliates will appreciate it. Assuming your ratios improve.

OR DON'T YOU FUCKING CARE?

That was so easy. :gaylords:[/QUOTE]

You don't get it do you, if you're sites are that good affiliates will do the marketing for you. You don't need to turn every thread into my sites convert great. Affiliates tell other affiliates what converts. If you think thats the only site i run thats in my sig think again :devil:

A sucessful webmaster doesn't boast about how sucessful they are.

You don't see SGS turning every thread into a ladysonia spam

[Paul Markham]

That was so easy. :gaylords:

You don't get it do you, if you're sites are that good affiliates will do the marketing for you. You don't need to turn every thread into my sites convert great. Affiliates tell other affiliates what converts. If you think thats the only site i run thats in my sig think again :devil:

A sucessful webmaster doesn't boast about how sucessful they are.

You don't see SGS turning every thread into a ladysonia spam[/QUOTE]
So we all have to do it how he does it.

I see now, so where do I find a Lady Sonia, learn about his niche and so on?

Your problem is you think there is only one way to do it. Lucky you're wrong.

What works for him works for him, what works for you works for you, what works for me works for me. None of us are right and none of us are wrong.

Never believe what works for one works for everyone. Especially when debating that one way works with someone who has made a lot of money doing it the exact opposite way.

Again so easy. :gaylords:

I'm finished debating this with you. Tell it to someone else.

[Johnny Kleenexxx]

What works for him works for him, what works for you works for you, what works for me works for me. None of us are right and none of us are wrong.

is this really Paul talking ? . . very refreshing

this is what i've been trying to say to you for months

strangely, your posts often imply that your methods are somehow

the ones we should all adopt . . that's why you get up peoples noses :smoke:

[Johnny Kleenexxx]

in fact . . deserves a sig quote

http://www.streetsofamsterdam.com/New_Site2005/banners/seesig2.gif

[Paul Markham]

is this really Paul talking ? . . very refreshing

this is what i've been trying to say to you for months

strangely, your posts often imply that your methods are somehow

the ones we should all adopt . . that's why you get up peoples noses :smoke:
Yes it's me.

I just try to tell the way it works for me. but there are many here and other boards who think the only way to do is the way they do it or others.

I think one of the problems with the Internet is the way we all think we should do it the same way. Must get very boring for the surfer.