View Full Version : Rant about Dragons' Den
I watched Dragons' Den for the first and only time this week. What a mean spirited little programme. There seem to be more and more of these where the so called entertainment consists of getting people to make a crap performance and then pick the piss out of them and to embarass them generally.
What a wasted opportunity Dragons is though. We all know that most inexperienced people are crap at presenting their ideas. So why not show how crap they are first, then show them how to do it and finally put them up against the dragons. This would at least give some kind of story line to each individual - and be useful to viewers who may need to make presentations themselves.
As it is, it's just a BBC version of those immature progs which show endless videos of people falling on their arses.
xcite-tv
08-19-06, 02:58 PM
Dont believe for a minute that those investors are facing these people cold....they will have seen their business plans and financial forcasts and know well in advance what to trip them up with..
No doubt. I would expect that. But it's the format I'm barkin about. It's about as sporting as watching sharp shooters shoot fish in a barrel. In fact I wondered whether they selected these contestants on the basis of just how crap they and their ideas were.
Dont believe for a minute that those investors are facing these people cold....they will have seen their business plans and financial forcasts and know well in advance what to trip them up with..
I honestly believe that show is about extreme exploitation !!
When someone comes along with a really good invention or idea that will give them a really good market share in a specific industry I believe they end up getting screwed by the panel.
The presenter of the product always has a set percentage that he is willing give them in his/her company for the £100,000 investment and the panel always want at least double (if not more)
Take this weeks episode, The guys business venture was a high risk venture but it had massive potential to be a multi million pound operation and he had a patent for his invention.
This guy is offering 5% of his business for the £100,000 investment
Richard Farleigh offers him that cash for 30% of his company, thats just insane imo !! I understand its a high risk venture but 30% of your company for that amount of investment seems a little unfair.
Its the entrepreneurs that get the short end of the stick in that show, its not even close to fair imo (the percentage of the company that the investors want for the inventment that they provide)
Dream show for them, create the show and make money. See some of the most promising entrepreneurs selling large percentages of their companies to them for a lot less than they are potentially worth (in some cases)
I still enjoy watching the show though, there are some interesting tips which they provide. On occassion...
No doubt. I would expect that. But it's the format I'm barkin about. It's about as sporting as watching sharp shooters shoot fish in a barrel. In fact I wondered whether they selected these contestants on the basis of just how crap they and their ideas were.
I see your point man, parts of that show remind me of the crappy contestants they put on pop idiol (and shit shows like that) for the audiences just to laugh at
I couldn't believe that guy Richard Farleigh is 46 years old ! Talk about lookin young for your age
I might read his book - Taming the Lion: 100 Secret Strategies for Investing
Its very impressive his achievements !
Richard Farleigh offers him that cash for 30% of his company, thats just insane imo !! I understand its a high risk venture but 30% of your company for that amount of investment seems a little unfair.
The other interesting party Peter Jones wanted 45% of his business !, he wanted nearly half his business for £100,000.
I'm gonna stick my kneck out and say the woman with the transparent wellies had a good idea. Kids would love 'em. She was very badly advised to go on the show. Firsty without patenting the idea and secondly they were the wrong backers. She was just made a fool of for not being experienced and all in the cause of so called entertainment. I'm gonna write to the Beeb "Dear Sir .... Disgusted of Tumbridge Wells " etc.
I wasn't convinced about the SONAR alarm thingy but I guess for 30% stake and only £100k investment he could afford to take a risk. It was interesting that the guy presenting that idea was the same sort of person as the panel. He talked the talk and walked the walk and all that stuff. But as xcite said, the panel have probably poured over the investment in detail before hand.
I'm gonna stick my kneck out and say the woman with the transparent wellies had a good idea. Kids would love 'em. She was very badly advised to go on the show. Firsty without patenting the idea and secondly they were the wrong backers. She was just made a fool of for not being experienced and all in the cause of so called entertainment. I'm gonna write to the Beeb "Dear Sir .... Disgusted of Tumbridge Wells " etc.
Yea I think your right, she had a pretty poor presentation which didn't help. Then she accidently insulted Theo Paphitis with the nanny claim and her chance was gone at that point. I think her business could have been successful but I think the reason why the panel didn't like it was because (for them) the return wouldn't have been high enought for them to invest.
There was no competition in that market, she needed a patent though and she had done pretty well on her own (small scale) She just needed investment for he business to take off on a bigger scale
I wasn't convinced about the SONAR alarm thingy but I guess for 30% stake and only £100k investment he could afford to take a risk.
Yep thats what Richard Farleigh does, he is a high risk angel investor and considering that he resides in Monty Carlo I'm sure he will know just how lucrative a market it is. An australian company recently went public for £64 million (or some figure around that amount)
It was interesting that the guy presenting that idea was the same sort of person as the panel. He talked the talk and walked the walk and all that stuff. But as xcite said, the panel have probably poured over the investment in detail before hand.
Yep, I'm sure they know ever little detail before deciding to invest in any project that is presented to them for the TV show.
Yea I think your right, she had a pretty poor presentation which didn't help. Then she accidently insulted Theo Paphitis with the nanny claim and her chance was gone at that point. I think her business could have been successful but I think the reason why the panel didn't like it was because (for them) the return wouldn't have been high enought for them to invest.
I bet they'll be for sale next xmas. Not made by her but commissioned by Marks and Sparks and made by some chinese company.
I've just googled for these crystal boots and they're for sale at several on-line retailers. So maybe her performance was just a clever marketing ploy ;-)
Didnt see this weeks episode..... but in general venture finance is provided on the basis that the product/company is more likely to fail than succeed, hence the large shares wanted by the investors......
Its the same in all business including this business - ventures are more likely to fail than succeed.... and of the ones that dont fail on a very few will go on to big success.....
Just look at our small business community here..... Theres only 1 huge success (take a bow SGS) and a couple of people doing very well......
So these investors on Dragons Den arent doing anything out of th ordinary for their business.... if anything they are doing things with more risk than usual becasue they dont want to go through the series and not be seen to make at least 1 investment...
Dont believe for a minute that those investors are facing these people cold....they will have seen their business plans and financial forcasts and know well in advance what to trip them up with..
Actually no, they are facing the entrepreneurs cold. There's a due diligence process afterwards to make sure the dragons haven't been misled though.
strictlybroadband
08-19-06, 06:15 PM
I enjoy the programme. In my experience, almost everyone has a business idea and almost all of them are unworkable, so it seems true to life. The fact is that there's a massive difference between having a "good" idea and being able to turn it into a workable business, and the show demonstrates that.
True, the dragons are often harsher than they need to be. But they're often doing people a favour. Some people invest everything they own into a venture that has no chance of success. It's better to burst their bubble than watch them lose their home.
smoothballs
08-19-06, 07:01 PM
I love dragons den! can you imagine if say the internet was someones patented business idea and the dragons shoot in down in flames..wont work ect! lol
Did anyone see the comedey sketch of dragons den, cant remember the sketch show it was on, kinda of went like this......
Tramp stood before the dragons.....
dragon: "so how much investment are you looking for?"
tramp: "50p"
dragon: "and what do you need the 50p for?"
tramp: "a cup of tea"
dragon; "and what equity are you prepared to give me?"
tramp: "I just want a cup of tea!"
dragon:" right I'll put this to you, I will give you the 50p investment but I want 60% of the contents"
tramp: " what? thats nearly a whole cup of tea!"
dragon: "60% of the contents or I'm out, I will not be investing"
tramp: "piss off!"
lol he appears before the dragons again later....
tramp: "big issue?"
lmao
mOBSCENE
08-19-06, 07:01 PM
The concept is a good one, but I do think they've sexed up the insults and the focus on the punters looking stupid since the first series.
Still, as SB says, what is worse, encouraging someone to lose their home on a fantasy or sticking the knife in before its too late?
Wish they'd do more follow ups though, there must be some who've gone on to stick two fingers up at the dragons and make a success?!
smoothballs
08-19-06, 07:02 PM
thing about those dragons...none of them made their wealth by inventions, they just tapped into markets that were already there or with shrewd business acumen
smoothballs
08-19-06, 07:04 PM
The concept is a good one, but I do think they've sexed up the insults and the focus on the punters looking stupid since the first series.
Still, as SB says, what is worse, encouraging someone to lose their home on a fantasy or sticking the knife in before its too late?
Wish they'd do more follow ups though, there must be some who've gone on to stick two fingers up at the dragons and make a success?!
I think the guy who invented the bedlam cube who got what he was asking for eventually turned the dragon down afterwards as he got the investment he wanted from a bank without having to give away any equity like he would of done if he stuck with the dragon investment
xcite-tv
08-19-06, 08:22 PM
The other interesting party Peter Jones wanted 45% of his business !, he wanted nearly half his business for £100,000.
Its rare an investor puts money into a company for less than 40% ..
xcite-tv
08-19-06, 08:24 PM
Actually no, they are facing the entrepreneurs cold. There's a due diligence process afterwards to make sure the dragons haven't been misled though.
and you know this how ?
This guy is offering 5% of his business for the £100,000 investment
Richard Farleigh offers him that cash for 30% of his company, thats just insane imo !! I understand its a high risk venture but 30% of your company for that amount of investment seems a little unfair.
Well that bloke actually said he was willing to give 20%, if he had come in asking for 20% they would have wanted 40%.
I have seen a few people be offered a deal and turn it down. The people are not obliged to accept any offer that is made.
If it's so unfair and they have such a great "product" why are they trying to sell a percentage of their company?
Its rare an investor puts money into a company for less than 40% ..
For £100,000 though ? I thought VPs would want that amount or more but then they would be putting a lot more money on the table.
£100,000 for 45% of a company that has a good potential to generate a multi million pound turnover ?
I have seen a few people be offered a deal and turn it down. The people are not obliged to accept any offer that is made.
Very true, that wasn't my point though
If it's so unfair and they have such a great "product" why are they trying to sell a percentage of their company?
Clearly they need the investment for their company to grow, thats supposed to be the point of the show.
I just thought that in this occassion the guy had a solid business plan for his sonar alarm system which had great potential to make millions and hes given away a huge chunk of his business for that £100K.
I just see it as a better business opportunity for the investors than the entrepreneurs
For £100,000 though ? I thought VCs would want that amount or more but then they would be putting a lot more money on the table.
Mistyped by bad ! :crown:
I just see it as a better business opportunity for the investors than the entrepreneurs
Well of course it is
and you know this how ?
Something I read somewhere a long time ago. It's just how it works. The dragons have no knowledge of the entrepreneurs in advance and investment pledges aren't binding until the proper checks (such as on patents etc) are caried out afterwards.
Its rare an investor puts money into a company for less than 40% ..
There are millions of us who invest our money in companies for far less than 40%.
strictlybroadband
08-20-06, 11:19 AM
There are millions of us who invest our money in companies for far less than 40%.
Investing in a public company is much safer. You can sell your shares anytime. Once you're in a private company, you're at the mercy of the entrepreneur who runs it. You have to accept that you'll probably lose your money, so you expect that if it succeeds, you'll get back your investment money times 5, or 10.
xcite-tv
08-20-06, 12:47 PM
There are millions of us who invest our money in companies for far less than 40%.
I think we are talking about VC's and business angels investing in companies
for a major stake
not a few hundred or even thousands worth of shares for a fraction of a percentage in some PLC
pondlife
08-20-06, 03:00 PM
I think you're right - the program is now about the falling-on-their-ass 'contestants' rather than how to go and get funding for a business idea - quite frankly I find it painful to watch - just like all the other Fame Academy Pop Idol rubbish.
Has any one read 'The Long Tail' by Chris Anderson? I'm about a 1/3 of the way into it and it seems to be a really good read for those interested in internet marketing.
Cheers,
Investing in a public company is much safer. You can sell your shares anytime. Once you're in a private company, you're at the mercy of the entrepreneur who runs it. You have to accept that you'll probably lose your money, so you expect that if it succeeds, you'll get back your investment money times 5, or 10.
Oh right ! Is that why these angel investors want such a high percentage in these startup companies ? Because its a high risk investment ?
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