Whats Legal when hosting in the UK ?

[GreenGrass]

Hi Guys

Thought its about time i joined the board :cheers2:

When hosting in the UK, what is legal online ? basiclly the same as in the USA or can we only show a bit of nipple in the uk before they have paid to go into the members area ?

or can you show anything legal, i.e naked woman or man and not sex, or do you have to edit all your free pics with stars over the nude bits:-)

Thanks, i am used to USA hosting, but like the speeds i am seeing with hosting in the uk for uk surfers

[dvtimes]

Hi Guys

Thought its about time i joined the board :cheers2:

When hosting in the UK, what is legal online ? basiclly the same as in the USA or can we only show a bit of nipple in the uk before they have paid to go into the members area ?

or can you show anything legal, i.e naked woman or man and not sex, or do you have to edit all your free pics with stars over the nude bits:-)

Thanks, i am used to USA hosting, but like the speeds i am seeing with hosting in the uk for uk surfers

Make sure your UK host is happy with porn. Not all are.

I would have thought the cost would be very high to host in the UK. Bandwidth seems very expensive in the UK.

Mabe another USA host will be faster.

[Paul Markham]

Make sure your UK host is happy with porn. Not all are.


I would say if the hosting company are happy with what you're doing you are in the clear. Unless you're doing something very extreme.

The Obscenity Act is so vague and extreme you would have to be doing some very hard and weird stuff before you got pulled.

They don't prosecute extreme videos that would never get a certificate from the BBFC, they just do them for being certificated.

[fredicus]

Check out the european hosts too, most are cheaper than those in the UK ;)

.
:alcoholic

[Geezer]

I really don't see why you want to host in the UK unless you wanted to pop into the data centre.

[strictlybroadband]

What's legal is more or less defined by what would get an R18 cert from the BBFC. Basically, hardcore sex is legal, so is anal, cumshots, etc... pissing is OK but not onto a person... some bondage, etc. is OK but a person can't be bound and gagged simultaneously (they must be able to withdraw consent). You can do spanking, whipping etc. but not leave serious marks. Fisting is a no-no.

[JT]

I really don't see why you want to host in the UK unless you wanted to pop into the data centre.


Yep no point at all hosting in the UK unless you like paying 10 times over the odds

[Paul Markham]

What's legal is more or less defined by what would get an R18 cert from the BBFC. Basically, hardcore sex is legal, so is anal, cumshots, etc... pissing is OK but not onto a person... some bondage, etc. is OK but a person can't be bound and gagged simultaneously (they must be able to withdraw consent). You can do spanking, whipping etc. but not leave serious marks. Fisting is a no-no.
So maybe you would like to quote the obscene publications act and then tell us about all the prosecutions brought under this act.

This is from a guy who sold porn in the UK from 1977, so got a little bit of knowledge on it.

The Crown Prosecution service was having a very hard time getting convictions under the obscene publications act in the early 80. so the government passed the videos recording act. Which made it illegal to sell any video, unless documentary or educational unless it had a certificate.

The most adult classification was 18. Then in the mid 90s that relaxed it and brought out R, which took the barrier higher. Now they will give an R license to anything that is legal in the US, in fact that was the general guide lines.

However the obscene publications act still remains in force and having an R18 certificate does not exempt you from prosecution under the obscene publications act. But in practice they have no chance of getting a conviction.

So what would be deemed obscene in 2006? Your guess is as good as mine but I would say it's slightly more than what the BBFC will allow.

[Richard]

There was a court case in 1999 (George Waddon) that set the precedent that it is where the material is uploaded from that determines where it is published, not where the site is hosted. If you host in the UK or the Netherlands or the USA and reside in the UK you are still subject to the Obscene Publications Act.

The police and customs in the UK tend to be going by what the BBFC define as being okay for a R18. They kindly define it:

http://www.bbfc.org.uk/policy/policy-class-r18.php

The Obscene Publications Act is based on community standards, if I recall. So publishing extreme work from a sleepy village in Wales is going to be more likely in breach of the Act than publishing it from Soho. Don't know if that is still the case though.

The BBFC have - since the introduction of the R18 certificate - really become the arbiter of what is obscene in the UK. They have access to far better lawyers and advice than us lowly webmasters and producers, so if they consider something to be okay under the Act (as per the first line of their definition above) then I would suggest it IS okay under the act.

Of course, you should never take legal advice from anyone on a forum and certainly should never assume that because someone else can do it you can as well.

[strictlybroadband]

The BBFC regularly take advice from the CPS and police when deciding what they should cut, rather than the other way round. Paul, I agree that the CPS is retreating when it comes to prosecutions, but the discussion is about what would theoretically get you prosecuted, not what will definitely get you prosecuted.

The guidelines here aren't quite the same as the US. The US allows somewhat harder content than the UK - although bondage sex is allowed in the UK but not the US. One example is female ejaculation (squirting) which is allowed in the US but the BBFC has decided (after consulting with the GMC) that squirting doesn't really exist (daft twats) and is really pissing, so they cut it before granting an R18.

Richard is also right - it's irrelevant where you host the content, it's where you reside that's important, so hosting overseas won't save you from prosecution if you're in the UK.

[spann0]

dogs, horses, incest its all legal here!

seriously I wouldn't host here but if you have to I'd stick to the BBFC guidelines general hardcore should be ok you can find them on google

Amsterdam probly a better place to host in europe you can do anything there they!

[Paul Markham]

The Obscene Publications Act is based on community standards, if I recall. So publishing extreme work from a sleepy village in Wales is going to be more likely in breach of the Act than publishing it from Soho. Don't know if that is still the case though.

The BBFC have - since the introduction of the R18 certificate - really become the arbiter of what is obscene in the UK. They have access to far better lawyers and advice than us lowly webmasters and producers, so if they consider something to be okay under the Act (as per the first line of their definition above) then I would suggest it IS okay under the act.

Of course, you should never take legal advice from anyone on a forum and certainly should never assume that because someone else can do it you can as well.
No the Obscenity law says, or did say, is "Likely to corupt and deprave" and then it goes on to say something about the audience it's intended for.

But you are right if you stick to what is legal at R18 you are playing very safe.

In reality there is very little chance of anyone getting prosecuted under the Obscenity law unless it's totally and obviously a slam dunk for the prosecution. The penalties for publishing anything obscene are the same for selling non certificated videos. To get the first conviction you have to prove a very difficult point, convincing a jury it will "Corrupt and Deprave". Under the videos recording act you either have a certificate or you don't. It's that simple.

[Richard]

Okay, Paul :)

[Paul Markham]

Okay, Paul :)
I worked for a long time with the Obscenity act over my head and lived with it. The Video Recording act was a slam dunk.

The Internet is a grey area and today I read on Xbiz that they want to make it voluntary. As if all the porn sites are going to rush to Soho Square to get a certificate. that will probably cost money. :banghead:

I went to court under the VRA. :(

[SGS]

99% of UK hosts are just re-sellers anyway and if you host with a re-seller you need to ask yourself why.

[Pandemos]

One example is female ejaculation (squirting) which is allowed in the US but the BBFC has decided (after consulting with the GMC) that squirting doesn't really exist (daft twats) and is really pissing, so they cut it before granting an R18.

As an aside to the thrust of this discussion, it's also worth noting that last year, the BBFC passed the German film Taxi Zum Klo with an 18 certificate despite it featuring hardcore gay sex, including a rather explicit piss drinking scene.

The film was submitted by Channel 4 who argued that while the sexual content included material that wouldn't make it into an R18, this was overriden by the artistic significance of the the film, something which wouldn't apply were it a standard R18esque porn film.

The sexual activity in Taxi Zum Klo is very explicit and it does indicate that the BBFC have sought to make decisions based on the context of explicit acts, rather than solely on the acts themselves. The first major example of this that I was recall was several years ago when Lars Von Trier's The Idiots got an 18 certificate despite a penetration scene.