View Full Version : making a members only paysite
supernewbie
06-20-06, 05:29 AM
ok, you pay your money, you sign up, you get super cool content,straight adult site stuff. now can anyone give me detailed links/advice on setting this all up please?
supernewbie
06-20-06, 07:04 AM
Thank you. Is this the standard one a lot of companies tend to use?
Paul Markham
06-20-06, 09:18 AM
I seriously suggest if you're asking this question you need to be thinking a lot more about if this is a wise move.
Do you know what content you will be offering, how to promote it, get traffic, etc. The "Openng a site" part is the easy bit, which makes the rest essential.
Find someone to set it all up for u, who knows what they're doing....
U might think its expensive, but it will work out a lot cheaper in the long term as u will learn from it...
There are people who can do on here so u can post asking....
Paul is right, the actual set up of the site is the easy bit... marketing is the hardest part.....
ok, you pay your money, you sign up, you get super cool content,straight adult site stuff. now can anyone give me detailed links/advice on setting this all up please?
1) Set up the site
2) Learn how to use .htaccess
3) Set up the Member area
4) get a payment processor
5) advertise for your site to get the traffic to it
6) Get a partner or pp to send the not converted traffic to
7) learn how to convert the visitors
8) count the money you have earned :)
1) Set up the site
2) Learn how to use .htaccess
3) Set up the Member area
4) get a payment processor
5) advertise for your site to get the traffic to it
6) Get a partner or pp to send the not converted traffic to
7) learn how to convert the visitors
8) count the money you have earned :)
You forgot the last one there:
9) If you need to be told all of the above get ready to throw a lot of money into a bottomless pit.
dvtimes
06-20-06, 10:20 AM
To be honest you have jumped in way too far already.
The irst thing to do is think about what you want to offer.
By this I mean are you just planning to do a standered porn site? But what is standered, are you looking at solo, g/g or b/g, or even g/b/b/b/b or what about b/g/g/g/g, or mabe its a gay site.
Or are you planning a fetish site, such as feet, bondage and so on.
And what models are you after, young (18 plus), mature, slim, fat, dark, light, and so on.
How many sites are doing this?
Why would people join your site?
Then do you have a sexy domain name?
Doing a p[orn site is like any other business. Just because you make a porn site does not mean people will want to join.
But the fact that your asking very basic questions does mean you have not realy thought or looked into this.
Its a bit like on tv when somone think they will open a resturant and just goes out and does it. You then see gorden rasmsy having to sort it out as the owners jumped in without any thought.
supernewbie
06-20-06, 10:45 AM
Whoa, yes my site is all planned, domain everything, how to market, whatever, i merely wanted to find out a bit more about a members section as I wasnt going to have one initially. All content will be mine and promoted in a variety of ways as it could be seen as a crossover site, and yes I do have something new in mind but im kind of keeping it all under wraps though, seriously. I just like my research verified by a variety of sources. I know I dont know it all but who does, i'll learn like im sure you have all had to. In all honesty i know fuck all about members areas and anyway im not setting this site up tomorrow or anything, it'll be a while yet before I get it up.
Thanks for the help but dont assume I know nothing whatsoever! im off to sleep been up about 24 hours.
Paul Markham
06-20-06, 10:58 AM
1) Set up the site
2) Learn how to use .htaccess
3) Set up the Member area
4) get a payment processor
5) advertise for your site to get the traffic to it
6) Get a partner or pp to send the not converted traffic to
7) learn how to convert the visitors
8) count the money you have earned :)
Sure fire recipe to lose money.
We just think it's strange that you are asking the question to something so basic. If you've never seen a members area what makes you think you can create one that will satisfy those prepared to spend money for one?
In all honesty I know fuck all about boats, which is why I have no plans to go into business selling them.
You forgot the last one there:
9) If you need to be told all of the above get ready to throw a lot of money into a bottomless pit.
That's true and for 10) just add soemthing more to step into the faults you have not experienced within item 9.) :D
xcite-tv
06-20-06, 11:45 AM
I seriously suggest if you're asking this question you need to be thinking a lot more about if this is a wise move.
Do you know what content you will be offering, how to promote it, get traffic, etc. The "Openng a site" part is the easy bit, which makes the rest essential.
Instead of trying to put the guy off ....why not try to help, maybe he will be a customer of yours one day....
Its not a closed shop..
typical middle class attitude "we have got ours now pull the ladder up"
I didnt know any of the stuff this guy is asking a year ago...we just knew how to make good content...but we are getting there and this guy needs encouragement....
dont be scared of a little competition
Thanks for the help but dont assume I know nothing whatsoever! im off to sleep been up about 24 hours.
When you ask a question that says "I know nothing" and your nick is supernewbie then that's what we will think.
i merely wanted to find out a bit more about a members section as I wasnt going to have one initially
You wasn't going to have a members area, what was you going to have then?
You don't have to be an expert or have seen inside 100 paysites to be able to do a members area. A members area is just something that is protected to keep none members out. So you design it how you want, you just have to be able to offer your members and easy to navigate way of seeing the content they want. Obviously if you know a fair bit then this will be easy, it's a bit like building portal with galleries. Although you could just have links to all the content, downloads, galleries etc.
Instead of trying to put the guy off ....why not try to help, maybe he will be a customer of yours one day....
Its not a closed shop..
typical middle class attitude "we have got ours now pull the ladder up"
I didnt know any of the stuff this guy is asking a year ago...we just knew how to make good content...but we are getting there and this guy needs encouragement....
dont be scared of a little competition
Hmmm. I think most people have tried to help
xcite-tv
06-20-06, 11:55 AM
Hmmm. I think most people have tried to help
I was aiming it at the boardtracker king
I was aiming it at the boardtracker king
I did think that, I was waiting him for him to offer some "great" content
mellenig
06-20-06, 11:59 AM
If you are looking for a conent mangement system also take a look at CARMA (http://www.toomuchmedia.com/products/carma/)
Paul Markham
06-20-06, 12:07 PM
I was aiming it at the boardtracker king
Like I said more interested in having a go at me than actually helping the guy.
In fact I was more help than you were.
If you are looking for a conent mangement system also take a look at CARMA (http://www.toomuchmedia.com/products/carma/)
$3,500.00 - not bad - you have to get listed here: http://www.cmsmatrix.org/matrix to get compared against the free ones :)
xcite-tv
06-20-06, 12:13 PM
Like I said more interested in having a go at me than actually helping the guy.
In fact I was more help than you were.
when did you say that ????????
I cannot help him as i dont know what i am talking about there are many more people here more qualified to help
so yes i am much more interested in having a go at you...because you deserve it
and there is a difference between constructive help and destructive help
mellenig
06-20-06, 12:23 PM
$3,500.00 - not bad - you have to get listed here: http://www.cmsmatrix.org/matrix to get compared against the free ones :)
Its not mine just switching from awiz to carma so no need to get listed there...just giving him a recomendation on a good content management system its not free but you get what you pay for;)
Paul Markham
06-20-06, 01:53 PM
when did you say that ????????
I cannot help him as i dont know what i am talking about there are many more people here more qualified to help
so yes i am much more interested in having a go at you...because you deserve it
and there is a difference between constructive help and destructive help
You are right I did not post about you being more interested in having a go.
And like
I said if I put him off I've done him a faovoar. As you admit to not knowing I will tell you starting a paysite is not something a newbie should be attempting. Now if you know better please post why I'm wrong.
As a paysite owner I do know and if you think I'm scared of competition you do not know me very well. I thrive on competition.
WordsforHire
06-20-06, 02:02 PM
meow! gotta love drama on days like these..
xcite-tv
06-20-06, 02:08 PM
You are right I did not post about you being more interested in having a go.
And like
I said if I put him off I've done him a faovoar. As you admit to not knowing I will tell you starting a paysite is not something a newbie should be attempting. Now if you know better please post why I'm wrong.
As a paysite owner I do know and if you think I'm scared of competition you do not know me very well. I thrive on competition.
Well we were a "newbie" last year and we have done ok as new paysite owners ...whats wrong with learning??? the last thing anyone should do in any business is think they know it all... we have got lots to learn and we will never stop doing so
you invited me to post why a newbie should start a paysite? why not???? you never know, they might just bring something to the surfer thats new and fresh...and lets face it... it really is about time somebody did...
the web is bursting at the seams with content thats been seen everywhere..your maybe half right,, a newbie should maybe think twice about starting a site unless he shoots his own content. I cant really think that starting a paysite by buying overused shite content is the way forward for anyone. But who knows they may just pick something up in their design or marketing thats not been tried..but to dismiss them is wrong
and yet again your making assumptions about things i didnt say...when did i say you are scared of competition....?
sounds like you may have heard that many times before...but not from me
In fact I was more help than you were :neener:
Just thought I would quote and add the smilie you should have used, you'll be saying your dad is bigger than his next :wank:
Just thought I would quote and add the smilie you should have used, you'll be saying your dad is bigger than his next :wank:
I wasn't having a Pete moment there I meant to add this :wank2:
Well we were a "newbie" last year and we have done ok
my god - if you are not any longer a newbie after one year, what should I am then be as I got my first pay site up in 94
Paul Markham
06-20-06, 02:40 PM
Instead of trying to put the guy off ....why not try to help, maybe he will be a customer of yours one day....
Its not a closed shop..
typical middle class attitude "we have got ours now pull the ladder up"
I didnt know any of the stuff this guy is asking a year ago...we just knew how to make good content...but we are getting there and this guy needs encouragement....
dont be scared of a little competition
And if you mean me as the board tracker king then I'm assuming you meant me.
As for the rest of the asumptions.
the web is bursting at the seams with content thats been seen everywhere..your maybe half right,, a newbie should maybe think twice about starting a site unless he shoots his own content. I cant really think that starting a paysite by buying overused shite content is the way forward for anyone. But who knows they may just pick something up in their design or marketing thats not been tried..but to dismiss them is wrongWhy do you assume you can't make a site work with non exclusive content, why do you assume a content shot by him will work and finally why do you assume non exclusive is saturated?
So I will assume from your previous statements that you do not know a lot so I'm teaching you as well as supernewbie.
Non exclusive is not saturated, BY GOD I WISH IT WAS, in fact exclusive can be more saturated than non exclusive depending on the license. Why? Because more and more of the non exclusive content providers are saying no to affiliate distribution and the content being given to them is often the exclusive content from the paysite.
Non exclusive gets saturated by sales to individuals then. NO WAY AND A STUPID ASSUMPTION. Simply because you can buy exclusive content for the price of 5 to 10 times the price non exclusive. If it was sold that many times explain why they give it away exclusive and I'm not buying it as fast as they can shoot it.
Shooting yourself is the key. BULLSHIT. I've done the job most males into porn would give their right arm to do for 30 years. Guys have been picking up cameras and pointing them at naked females for decades. 1 in 100 used to survive, now with the Interent and digital lowering the bar that number is better. But if you think the surfer gives a dam if you shot it yourself or I shot it, or Uncle Tom Cobbly shot it you sadly mistaken.
You will bring something new to the Internet, very likely, but will it be any good. Will the surfer understand it and does he want to figure it out while he's jerking off? There are people making a big fortune doing nothing new, they are just doing it better.
my god - if you are not any longer a newbie after one year, what should I am then be as I got my first pay site up in 94
An old git? :gaylords:
xcite-tv
06-20-06, 02:59 PM
my god - if you are not any longer a newbie after one year, what should I am then be as I got my first pay site up in 94
sorry your right we still are a "Newbie"
Non exclusive is not saturated, BY GOD I WISH IT WAS, in fact exclusive can be more saturated than non exclusive depending on the license. Why? Because more and more of the non exclusive content providers are saying no to affiliate distribution and the content being given to them is often the exclusive content from the paysite.
Non exclusive gets saturated by sales to individuals then. NO WAY AND A STUPID ASSUMPTION. Simply because you can buy exclusive content for the price of 5 to 10 times the price non exclusive. If it was sold that many times explain why they give it away exclusive and I'm not buying it as fast as they can shoot it.
Shooting yourself is the key. BULLSHIT. I've done the job most males into porn would give their right arm to do for 30 years. Guys have been picking up cameras and pointing them at naked females for decades. 1 in 100 used to survive, now with the Interent and digital lowering the bar that number is better. But if you think the surfer gives a dam if you shot it yourself or I shot it, or Uncle Tom Cobbly shot it you sadly mistaken.
You will bring something new to the Internet, very likely, but will it be any good. Will the surfer understand it and does he want to figure it out while he's jerking off? There are people making a big fortune doing nothing new, they are just doing it better.
You do talk load of old bollocks don't you.
So non exclusive isn't saturated?, course not. So an affiliate programme gives away non exclusive content to 1,000 affiliates who are all putting it out there I think you will find it is pretty over saturated.
So if excite-tv shoots Venice and no one else has those pics then they will be exclusive and to him only. The only place you will be able to see those pics/videos is on their site.
"will the surfer understand it" fuck off, if he wants to see girls taking it up the arse he joins a site with anal content, he sees a girl getting a cock jammed in her backdoor, what is there to understand?
xcite-tv
06-20-06, 03:06 PM
So I will assume from your previous statements that you do not know a lot so I'm teaching you as well as supernewbie.
thank you for the words of the wise...thats why i am here to learn..
just one thing ...If anyone ever sees a pic of me fingering a model please shoot me.... you have my permission..
In Feb 99 I started with a pay site and had zero idea what was what.. I didn't know a jpg from a gif or bmp.. To me they were just pics. At the same time I made two 30 pic sites for Adult Check and Age Check as it was back then. My first check came from AC at the end of March that year for a whole $25 and like many others I'm still around....
In fact Marino of "Road Trips" and I have just had this site launched for us http://www.podpornfilms.com/ We're trying out the next stage in porn :)
There are endless ideas still not thought of for making money from porn on the net, so "Newbie" go for it and ignore the "Know All" destructive comments because we all never stop learning..... Well unless you're Paul Markham as he knows more than anyone else in the biz..LOL
xcite-tv
06-20-06, 03:08 PM
So if excite-tv shoots Venice and no one else
why does everyone spell xcite with an E...
we dont do E here......:) :)
Paul Markham
06-20-06, 03:11 PM
Advice to anyone lurking or anyone who cares to read it, about starting a paysite. This is my advice others will have a different opinion.
The Internet is full of half assed, forgettable and bad sites. Starting another one without a massive traffic program is going to be like pouring money down the drain. Unless you are very lucky, in which case back horses the odds are better. :badgrin:
The idea that you will bring something new to the table is a very long shot and very risky. Try to bring something as good or better.
The people who want to jerk off once a month will be looking at free porn, the guys who want to jerk off every day are more likely to be looking to buy a membership.
They want something they understand, something they like and something that gets them aroused. And this is the tough part. It's much like "You can take a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" You can put up porn, but can you sell it?
To sell something it helps to understand the buyers motives. Be it porn or widgets. So a site in a niche you know and love will always have a better chance of surviving.
You can shoot it yourself, but the time spent doing it could be better spent doing other things. Also do you know how to turn a naked woman into a porn model? Those who survived did, whether they knew it or not, so pointing at a guy who can, does not mean you can.
Also there is the costs factor. If you have all the equipment fine, if you have not you will need to spend money getting equipment. Then you need to consider the cost of models, $500 I'm told is the price of a basic model in most places. Double it for all the other costs and if you work hard you will spend $1,000 a day to get solo content that you could probably buy for $300. Of course these prices will fluctuate depending on what you shoot.
In todays market a site with less than 50 pieces of hardcore content or 500 of solo girl content will struggle, unless you have that traffic engine. Or it's in a very narrow niche with limited appeal and hence limited competition. So budget on $50,000 for exclusive hardcore or softcore content if you want to go the exclusive route.
This will buy you double what we set up our paysite with using non exclusive content. This site with no traffic at all returned it's investment in under 6 months and now makes enough for Eva and I to live on, if we did not have all our staff to pay and like earning more. :crown:
Simply because every week I offer the surfer this http://www.paulmarkhamteens.com/!newtour/updates-next-week.php yes ever week 42 pieces of content added to the paysite for their pleasure, broad appeal and a steady flow of porn. Think about how that converts and retains. Now think about what you can offer going the exclusive or shoot it yourself route.
Now show me programs with million dollar budgets and tell me the way they do it is right. Truth is few have the budgets to do it their way and if they started today most of them would fail. :neener:
So is this bringing something new to the Internet? I hope not, let the rest of the sites carry on offering what they do and leave me to do it my way. PLEASE.
Paul Markham
06-20-06, 03:15 PM
thank you for the words of the wise...thats why i am here to learn..
just one thing ...If anyone ever sees a pic of me fingering a model please shoot me.... you have my permission..
I would rather shoot the model. :angel:
There are endless ideas still not thought of for making money from porn on the net, so "Newbie" go for it and ignore the "Know All" destructive comments because we all never stop learning..... Well unless you're Paul Markham as he knows more than anyone else in the biz..LOLNo way do I know everything. Just that some think I do and surviving in the porn business for nearly 3 decades I picked up a lot.
The real skill is in ignoring my personality and seeing where my contributions fits your needs. Don't mean you personally.
Say Hi to Marino for me. :crown:
why does everyone spell xcite with an E...
we dont do E here......:) :)
Cos I get excited when talking about you :gaylords:
I always like to post nicks as they are written, I even went back to check before posting. It must becaus that's how you spell excite and we automatically "see" the "E"
xcite-tv
06-20-06, 03:18 PM
I have read your post....and sorry i am far to busy to answer all points except to say..
your wrong and your talking 90% shite
xcite-tv
06-20-06, 03:20 PM
Cos I get excited when talking about you :gaylords:
I thought you did
I always like to post nicks as they are written, I even went back to check before posting. It must becaus that's how you spell excite and we automatically "see" the "E"
do you spell X with an e? but say it and it becomes ex
and we have spent loads on an xcite numberplate now dont tell me we are wrong now...:(
Paul
"So is this bringing something new to the Internet? I hope not, let the rest of the sites carry on offering what they do and leave me to do it my way. PLEASE."
The consensus here is that you do it your way and somewhere else rather than B&B.. Can't you take a hint that you're about as popular as Hitler would be at a barmitzvah !
Also..
Where the fuck do you get your costs from for starting a pay site ? Solo/models start at £60 hr for toys and b/g will cost £6-700 max. Many models do g/g from around £80 hr to £200/250 per scene. To get a pay site started the min is 1000 pix and 15 X 15 min vids which is what I started SGD with and it still has members from Oct 2004 :) A good tog can get 80-100 pics in a set and in 2 hrs can shoot quite a few sets and even vids.
The most expensive part I think is paying someone else to design the site fot you.
Exclusive is the way to go as affiliate galleries usually only show tasters of the full set inside the members area, so surfers will more likely want to join to see it all. In my little niche there is very little exclusive material and 99% of the pay sites all have the same non exclusive and have done for years.... Yawn Zzzzzz.
So Paul.. Why don't you just take a flying fuck away from B&B
xcite-tv
06-20-06, 03:25 PM
So Paul.. Why don't you just take a flying fuck away from B&B
Fuck me Joe, do we agree on something for once?
WordsforHire
06-20-06, 03:59 PM
Advice to anyone lurking or anyone who cares to read it, about starting a paysite. This is my advice others will have a different opinion.
The Internet is full of half assed, forgettable and bad sites. Starting another one without a massive traffic program is going to be like pouring money down the drain. Unless you are very lucky, in which case back horses the odds are better. :badgrin:
The idea that you will bring something new to the table is a very long shot and very risky. Try to bring something as good or better.
The people who want to jerk off once a month will be looking at free porn, the guys who want to jerk off every day are more likely to be looking to buy a membership.
They want something they understand, something they like and something that gets them aroused. And this is the tough part. It's much like "You can take a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" You can put up porn, but can you sell it?
To sell something it helps to understand the buyers motives. Be it porn or widgets. So a site in a niche you know and love will always have a better chance of surviving.
You can shoot it yourself, but the time spent doing it could be better spent doing other things. Also do you know how to turn a naked woman into a porn model? Those who survived did, whether they knew it or not, so pointing at a guy who can, does not mean you can.
Also there is the costs factor. If you have all the equipment fine, if you have not you will need to spend money getting equipment. Then you need to consider the cost of models, $500 I'm told is the price of a basic model in most places. Double it for all the other costs and if you work hard you will spend $1,000 a day to get solo content that you could probably buy for $300. Of course these prices will fluctuate depending on what you shoot.
In todays market a site with less than 50 pieces of hardcore content or 500 of solo girl content will struggle, unless you have that traffic engine. Or it's in a very narrow niche with limited appeal and hence limited competition. So budget on $50,000 for exclusive hardcore or softcore content if you want to go the exclusive route.
This will buy you double what we set up our paysite with using non exclusive content. This site with no traffic at all returned it's investment in under 6 months and now makes enough for Eva and I to live on, if we did not have all our staff to pay and like earning more. :crown:
Simply because every week I offer the surfer this http://www.paulmarkhamteens.com/!newtour/updates-next-week.php yes ever week 42 pieces of content added to the paysite for their pleasure, broad appeal and a steady flow of porn. Think about how that converts and retains. Now think about what you can offer going the exclusive or shoot it yourself route.
Now show me programs with million dollar budgets and tell me the way they do it is right. Truth is few have the budgets to do it their way and if they started today most of them would fail. :neener:
So is this bringing something new to the Internet? I hope not, let the rest of the sites carry on offering what they do and leave me to do it my way. PLEASE.
Oh let me have a shot!!
Well mr know it all, if you had actually bothered to pay attention to B and B in the whole you would see super newbie has actually asked for lots more help than just this one post, you can thank your board tracker for that ;)
He has asked about hosting issues, which style of content is better, which sells, which doesnt, he has asked about marketing and the likes and in my eyes this is just his final wrap it all up comments!
What the industry doesnt need is people like you, sticking their oar in trying to make it sound like your advice is worth anything. You can go on and on about how much experience you have had and what you've done but it doesn't really matter as, if you haven't noticed, not many people value your opinion on this board.
I may not have years or decades behind me but I have enough knowledge to know how I do my thing, if I want more I'll ask. However, people asking for help shouldn't be met by someone like you who feels that he is the super god know it all wilber who can command and he shall receive.
Who is to say that super newbie will fail and offer nothing to this industrY?! Certainly not you! You spend your time wasting it by posting here and retaliating to the comments when indeed you should leave well enough alone. You have said your piece, you think you are the he man in everything and everyone else are no ones so let it rest ok, you're soooo not, but let it rest!
As for shooting exclusive and non exclusive, I have to say, from everything I have seen in my somewhat short days in adult I have noticed that non exclusive sites are not as good as those who are exclusive! Look at the wonderul guys at SGS, Lady-sonia. That is a hell of a successful site. Then you have Sammy4U. She has an amazing site and her exclusivity sells her!
There is no way that exclusive sites are saturated. Alot, not all, but a lot of folks opening up a new site tend to think that non exclusive will work fine but it diesnt...most people tend to go for the cheap and the cheap stuff is the stuff that everyone else is using.
So Mr Nobody, take your advice and leave with it. You've not contirubted anything towards supernewbies post apart from your half assed "Im better than everyone else attitude".
Toodles.
xcite-tv
06-20-06, 04:14 PM
Well its unanimous now !!!!
Xcite...
It's been unanimous since B&B was created.. LOL.
PM made a dumb comment on *** some time ago and I flamed him.. One of his fans over there posted back saying to me.. "Man do you know who you've just flamed !!!".. My reply was similar to.. Yeah a jumped up content provider not god !!..
PM stay on *** with all your surfer fans.
Gotta say, I agree with alot of what Paul says.
Especially about the traffic. If you havnt got the traffic to send to your site, then doesnt matter how good it is, you wont make sales.
Rellying on recruiting affiliates and them making you shit loads of sales isnt going to be easy and certainly not quick.
The thing I dont agree with Paul on is the content. Good affiliates (those who can actually send serious sales) will promote a new program if there is something they feel it can offer them. Content is usually that thing.
supernewbie
06-20-06, 04:39 PM
wow, i get up from sleep and find this thread has gone controversial. Thanks for the defence defenders and thanks everyone for the advice.
I noticed earlier someone saying something like "if youve never seen a paysite", I have believe it or not, quite a few. I simply was weighing up options for who can provide this service for me. Im not gonna jump into the first result Google throws me which is why I like to hear from experienced webmasters.
I am very confident I can bring something new to porn as my site will be a huge crossover dealing in music, video and stills. UK alt porn (if you will) aimed mainly at the 18-40 age region as I tire of most modern except a select few American producers. And im not thinking solely on people wanking just like Andrew Blake/Michael Ninn dosent (tho i do not class myself in amongst these legends of porn).
cheers Joe A youve been the most helpful in my quest so far.
Personally, the only UK porn id pay for at the minute is the Orchid stuff, I think things need to be moved forward and I know others feel like this. I dont think it will be too much competition for you guys, wankers will wank over anything, people who appreciate the art of porn will hunt out the good stuff. (Shit, not that im saying you guys arent doing great stuff).
I just believe research and talking to real people will pay off so I can appreciate both the negative and the positive criticism. I ook forward to reading more of this topic.
The thing I dont agree with Paul on is the content. Good affiliates (those who can actually send serious sales) will promote a new program if there is something they feel it can offer them. Content is usually that thing.
Agreed 100%.
Supernewbie
Thanks for the thanks but not necessary.. I'll send you the invoice later :)
As for Orchid... You couldn't have given a better example of someone becoming successful from nowhere. It's run by a female who sent Vivid a 5 min trailer with her ideas. She ended up with a major production contract with Vivid Europe :)
One more piece of advice.. If you have the domain name and hosting.. Get a beta front page on line asap, and add news about progress of the site as you go along. I put this up for SGD in June 2004 and we launched in Sep that year. The first two sign ups came within 20 mins as I'd been pushing her name around all the time on surfer and wm forums. Surfers jumped on this new and then unknown solo Indian model site...
Promo is # 1 priority.. Take my word for this info :)
Paul Markham
06-21-06, 06:59 AM
The thing I dont agree with Paul on is the content. Good affiliates (those who can actually send serious sales) will promote a new program if there is something they feel it can offer them. Content is usually that thing.
I will always stick up for good content and you're dead right about about affiliates. They are the first people you need to convince, they will need a good and steady supply of new content. 10 sets a month spread around 100 working affiliates will not cut it. With models costing this much. "Solo/models start at £60 hr for toys and b/g will cost £6-700 max. Many models do g/g from around £80 hr to £200/250 per scene." Supplying the affiliates with enough new exclusive content is going to be expensive.
This is without entering the realms of whether the shooter has the capabilities to shoot well enough from the beginning. We can afford to shoot 10 sets and 5 videos a week, but that's supported by the content store.
supernewbie I'm not having a go at you. I'm telling you the truth. The Adult Internet is a tough place to make a living even if you plan very well, have talent and a good budget. You can listen to me or others. Look at what the adviser has achieved and think about the advise he offers.
If you think I'm scared of competition then please explain why I include other paysites links on all my sites and building a review site www.primepornreview.com
xcite-tv
06-21-06, 09:52 AM
This is without entering the realms of whether the shooter has the capabilities to shoot well enough from the beginning. We can afford to shoot 10 sets and 5 videos a week, but that's supported by the content store.
Why do you think your the only one with the "capabilities" to shoot good content?
supernewbie I'm not having a go at you. I'm telling you the truth. The Adult Internet is a tough place to make a living even if you plan very well, have talent and a good budget. You can listen to me or others. Look at what the adviser has achieved and think about the advise he offers.
The Adult internet is no tougher than ANY other business. To make any business succesfull you need many different skill sets... Maybe you find it tough. but stop blowing smoke up your own arse.... there's no room ...your heads already up there. To say "look at what the adviser has achieved" is, I admit, consistant to your arrogant approach. but did you ever think he may not want to copy an already saturated market like yours.. We are not all in this business to fondle teen models
You have been around this business long enough to know more than most, what you need to learn how to give constuctive criticism.
I do sometimes see people coming into this biz (on the production side) and listen to the "NEW" ideas they have that we had years ago, and maybe even somebody did before us.
but we never try and stop them coming.. we encourage them in..
We owe everything we have now to a certain site owner who did just that ...encouraged, listened and helped where they could..without them we would still be just producing content....they know who they are ....and thank fuck they were not like YOU
Paul Markham
06-21-06, 10:26 AM
Why do you think your the only one with the "capabilities" to shoot good content?
Don't think I ever said that, can you show me where I said I was the ONLY ONE to shoot good content please.
The Adult internet is no tougher than ANY other business. To make any business successfull you need many different skill sets... Maybe you find it tough. but stop blowing smoke up your own arse.... there's no room ...your heads already up there. To say "look at what the adviser has achieved" is, I admit, consistant to your arrogant approach. but did you ever think he may not want to copy an already saturated market like yours.. We are not all in this business to fondle teen models
No I would say it's easier than most businesses, just not as easy as some people think. As for blowing smoke up peoples arse. Well I think telling someone he has to work hard and to be a success. I do not think it's any help to sugar coat things. Yes I'm arrogant. But never had to be in this business to fondle girls and as for teens, my second wife was 43 when I married her, don't like teens actually.
Yes I'm a success in a saturated market, does that tell you something?
You have been around this business long enough to know more than most, what you need to learn how to give constructive criticism.
Giving the tough answers can be seen as constructive. Sugar coating it is "Constructive"?
I do sometimes see people coming into this biz (on the production side) and listen to the "NEW" ideas they have that we had years ago, and maybe even somebody did before us. but we never try and stop them coming.. we encourage them in..
I see them coming in every day as well, look around at other boards and they are always popping up for advice. Then I see them 3 months later trying to sell me content I could not give away, or don't see them at all.
Look on Xbiz, Cozy, ******* and see the newbie threads and see how many are still around 6 months later. Encouraging them could be the mistake. Maybe if we told these guys the truth it would make them learn more, work harder and more would survive.
We owe everything we have now to a certain site owner who did just that ...encouraged, listened and helped where they could..without them we would still be just producing content....they know who they are ....and thank fuck they were not like YOUSo you were one of those who survived and you think because you did EVERYONE else can. I take a different approach, I think 1 in 100 survive. You think your approach is right and I think mine is.
So supernewbie can look at different views and make his own decisions.
Paul Markham
06-21-06, 10:53 AM
Who is to say that super newbie will fail and offer nothing to this industrY?! Certainly not you! You spend your time wasting it by posting here and retaliating to the comments when indeed you should leave well enough alone. You have said your piece, you think you are the he man in everything and everyone else are no ones so let it rest ok, you're soooo not, but let it rest!Like I said go do a search and see the success rate of most newbies. Because one survives does not mean they all will. Because 99 fail does not mean they all will either, but which one do you think is the more likely?
As for shooting exclusive and non exclusive, I have to say, from everything I have seen in my somewhat short days in adult I have noticed that non exclusive sites are not as good as those who are exclusive! Look at the wonderul guys at SGS, Lady-sonia. That is a hell of a successful site. Then you have Sammy4U. She has an amazing site and her exclusivity sells her! Again the "It works for this site so it will work for every site"
Do you really believe it's that easy to pick up a camera and produce porn that will sell?
There is no way that exclusive sites are saturated. Alot, not all, but a lot of folks opening up a new site tend to think that non exclusive will work fine but it diesnt...most people tend to go for the cheap and the cheap stuff is the stuff that everyone else is using.It depends on what you call exclusive. If it's a site with the same type of content as on 10,000 other site even though it's "Exclusive" it is saturated.
If it's site like you point out in the previous quote then it is not saturated. But then you are giving false advice. You need to tell supernewbie the truth. THEMED sites are going to give him a better chance of making it on the Internet.
Getting a girl or a theme that he can hone and present as being unique to his site is the way to do it. Just making it "Exclusive" is not giving good advice, in fact it's misleading advice. He could think all he needs to do is pick up a camera, book a model, or get someone else to, and shoot the same stuff that's on 10,000 other sites.
Now tell me he knows exactly what you mean when you use the word "Exclusive" him being called supernewbie.
So WordsforHire who gives the better advice?
ukwebmasters
06-21-06, 11:01 AM
because paul markham really is the teen-loving grandad ... of european content ... it's cool to read his thoughts, but it's even cooler to watch the BAB newbie heads blow them out of the water lol
Paul Markham
06-21-06, 11:14 AM
I do not sugar coat my advice. I see the failure rate in porn and know it's tougher than people think.
The failure rate in Internet porn is phenominal.
What I do not do is point to one site and say "This is the only way to go" or "They did it and you will as well if you do it like they did" Because very often the reason for the sites success has nothing to do with the reason given.
People point at a site and say it's a success becasue it's exclusive. When it's really a success becasue it's backed by a fantastic program with loads of traffic, or a themed idea, or a great model who is 1 in 100. Or it's just FUCKING GREAT PORN.
I've done a search on his threads.
http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4388
http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4303
Some very good advise given. As it's about hosting which I know little about I say nothing.
http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4530
If you think shooting erotic porn is easy, think again. Unless you have a lot of experience. And if you had it you would be selling to magazines or DVD companies at $5,000 a scene and upwards.
Shooting erotic hardcore is tough and expensive and if you really intend doing that you need to get a professional to do it. Thinking you can do it yourself is very risky.
Also look at the advise given to him on that thread. Very constructive stuff. :Penis
Paul Markham
06-21-06, 11:16 AM
because paul markham really is the teen-loving grandad ... of european content ... it's cool to read his thoughts, but it's even cooler to watch the BAB newbie heads blow them out of the water lol
Would be so nice if they could. Want to point out where they did?
They just come up with lots of empty and misleading statements.
Do you really believe it's that easy to pick up a camera and produce porn that will sell?
Interesting comment that.... I've just finished re editing the pics from my first ever porn shoot..... where I just picked up a camera.....
Interesting viewing how crap the pics were..... but with my gained knowlegede of photoshop, I've turned them into quite a good set for some new gallerys....
As for selling.... yes they've sold my site great in their original format...... but, I dont sell my content to other site owners.....
So my answer is, its quite easy to pick up a camera and produce porn....
Paul Markham
06-21-06, 12:26 PM
Interesting comment that.... I've just finished re editing the pics from my first ever porn shoot..... where I just picked up a camera.....
Interesting viewing how crap the pics were..... but with my gained knowlegede of photoshop, I've turned them into quite a good set for some new gallerys....
As for selling.... yes they've sold my site great in their original format...... but, I dont sell my content to other site owners.....
So my answer is, its quite easy to pick up a camera and produce porn....
Then share them with us. Please. :crown:
supernewbie
06-21-06, 04:09 PM
Looks like im set to fail, I guess most top porn producers were born into it or something, or that Blake/Ninn/Mckai are aliens. Best go the POV on a sofa in a London flat route after all, bah. Fuck art eh?
Paul Markham
06-21-06, 04:16 PM
Looks like im set to fail, I guess most top porn producers were born into it or something, or that are aliens. Best go the POV on a sofa in a London flatway after all, bah. Fuck art eh?
No they were not born into it, they learned their trade under someone else and it took a few years.
Which is why so many do the POV because anyone can aim a camera at his crutch with a girl sucking on his dick. That's why to do that you need talent to make it look different, assuming you want to sell it.
You might have the skills to shoot the Arty porn and just being ironic. I know a guy who trained at the BBC who does it and does it well. He shoots for people like Vivid, Digital Dreams and Private.
If you have these skills then you would know the problems associated shooting at this level, a level I could never get to.
That's why to do that you need talent to make it look different.
You should try that yourself.
I bet I could put someone who has never picked up a camera in their life, put them in your studio with your basic lighting and a half experienced model and by the end of the day they would have plenty of stuff that people would have a wank over.
Which is why so many do the POV because anyone can aim a camera at his crutch with a girl sucking on his dick. That's why to do that you need talent to make it look different, assuming you want to sell it.
Paul you keep on saying this... 'if you want to sell it' but what exactly do u mean?
Sell what - the site? or the pic to 3rd parties?
Paul - BTW... u wanted to see some pics from my first photoshoot ever..... here are a couple....
But dont go all technical on me... thats not fair... I just post them as an example from someone who'd never picked up a camera to shoot porn before...
Paul Markham
06-21-06, 06:51 PM
You should try that yourself.
I bet I could put someone who has never picked up a camera in their life, put them in your studio with your basic lighting and a half experienced model and by the end of the day they would have plenty of stuff that people would have a wank over.I could do it there are loads of guys who would shoot for free. But why do I only let Eva and the two girls, who earn a lot of money, I trained shoot for us? I no longer shoot as I'm too old, bored and busy.
Because anyone can point a camera at a girl and say "Open your legs and smile please". And many do. Sp this style of shooting is totally saturated and the guy looking for this level of porn can find it everywhere and anywhere. A lot of it for free. Even though "Exclusive" to the surfer it's all the same a lot of the time. Hence conversion ratios on average of 1:1000 on lots of sites.
However if you raise the level the number of people who can shoot in this style become fewer, the amount of content out there becomes less, the "Free Surfer" who needs this has to search for it or buy a membership. This is why so many sites with good porn do so well. Like Alsscan, Lightspeed and Sapphic. The content may not be "Exclusive" but it's harder to find and more spending worth $1 a day.
Paul you keep on saying this... 'if you want to sell it' but what exactly do u mean?
Sell what - the site? or the pic to 3rd parties?
Sell anything actually but in this case sell porn.
There are three types of salesmen.
One is a salesman, this is a guy who spots a need and convinces someone his product fills that need. Without resorting to a conman. Lots of sites do this by stimulating a surfers imagination. Good live cam girls can do it.
Supplier, this is a guy who supplies an existing need with a product by just showing it, lots of affiliates do this.
Conman, a guy who lies to make a sale not caring about the consequences. We all know of sites doing this and many are the reason why free porn is such a competition to us all.
Paul - BTW... u wanted to see some pics from my first photoshoot ever..... here are a couple....
But dont go all technical on me... thats not fair... I just post them as an example from someone who'd never picked up a camera to shoot porn before...I can see how they would appeal to some people and by narrowing down the niche you narrow the competition.
Would you sell more be making her look more willing and into it, I would guess yes.
Technically there is nothing wrong with the pictures on an amateur porn level.
OF COURSE THE ABOVE IS JUST MY OPINION AND IN NO WAY RELATED TO ANYONE ELSE'S EXPERIENCES. Plus I'm sure everyone on BAB can prove me wrong. :angel:
Sell anything actually but in this case sell porn.
There are three types of salesmen.
One is a salesman, this is a guy who spots a need and convinces someone his product fills that need. Without resorting to a conman. Lots of sites do this by stimulating a surfers imagination. Good live cam girls can do it.
Supplier, this is a guy who supplies an existing need with a product by just showing it, lots of affiliates do this.
Conman, a guy who lies to make a sale not caring about the consequences. We all know of sites doing this and many are the reason why free porn is such a competition to us all.
Seems like you read the book 'Bullshit Marketing Speak in 3 mins'
What is sold is actaully a proposition to the punter, that is made up of the site design, pricing, clever copyrighting and pics that will appeal - it is a combination of all 4 that in 99% of sales will determine whether or not someone signs up.
As I've said pictures or videos will make up part of that proposition, and should be fit for purpose i.e. reflect the quality and properties of a site. Yes you are using these pictures to convince someone the site fits his needs/desires, but you must put them into the context of them just being part of the proposition.
As for your supplier/conman definitions wtf did you drag up these from? Surely a conman would have a good proposition but the final product i.e. members area would be the con..... So cons can be excluded from this arguement.
And i'm really stumped by your definition of a supplier....... I think your talking more about commodities...... where something is so prevelant that there is no real product differation......so it becomes a supply/demand scenario rather than create demand scenario.
I can see how they would appeal to some people and by narrowing down the niche you narrow the competition.
Would you sell more be making her look more willing and into it, I would guess yes.
Technically there is nothing wrong with the pictures on an amateur porn level.
As you can see from my sig, I just work in a narrow niche.... but I wouldnt say that narrows the competition........ you have a narrower marketplace but the competition is still very fierce........ Again you say about sales if she looked more willing, but you are making an assumption based purely on a couple of pics... not the whole proposition!!!!!!!
But thanks for the high praise concerning my technical ability at taking amateur pics... Its really made my day :)
Paul Markham
06-21-06, 07:59 PM
Seems like you read the book 'Bullshit Marketing Speak in 3 mins'
What is sold is actaully a proposition to the punter, that is made up of the site design, pricing, clever copyrighting and pics that will appeal - it is a combination of all 4 that in 99% of sales will determine whether or not someone signs up.
As I've said pictures or videos will make up part of that proposition, and should be fit for purpose i.e. reflect the quality and properties of a site. Yes you are using these pictures to convince someone the site fits his needs/desires, but you must put them into the context of them just being part of the proposition.
As for your supplier/conman definitions wtf did you drag up these from? Surely a conman would have a good proposition but the final product i.e. members area would be the con..... So cons can be excluded from this arguement.
And i'm really stumped by your definition of a supplier....... I think your talking more about commodities...... where something is so prevelant that there is no real product differation......so it becomes a supply/demand scenario rather than create demand scenario.
Are you just arguing for the sake of it. All you did was describe what I proposed. You described how you sell your site.
So many on the Internet do not sell, they merely lay it out like many others with little to distinguish themselves from the competition. What you described was what you to to make yourself different from the other site. "HOW YOU SELL"
As you can see from my sig, I just work in a narrow niche.... but I wouldnt say that narrows the competition........ you have a narrower marketplace but the competition is still very fierce........ Again you say about sales if she looked more willing, but you are making an assumption based purely on a couple of pics... not the whole proposition!!!!!!!
But thanks for the high praise concerning my technical ability at taking amateur pics... Its really made my day
I DID SAY BY MAKING HER LOOK THE WAY SHE DOES YOU COULD BE HOMING IN ON A NARROWER PART OF THE NICHE.
To me she looks stern, like a school matron or that agining aunty. Maybe it's just the pictures you showed but already I'm starting to fantasize a story behind them. That's what porn is all about.
I would say less people jerk off to mature than jerk off to teens. But that would be balanced by the number of people supplying the product. I would not know the competiton level of porn and did say I was guessing.
I honestly do not see why you are arguing. You point out the method you use to "Sell" your site. Then you have a go at me guessing. For making an assumption based on the two pictures I saw, that's what I thought you wanted me to do. Why didn't you tell me to go to the site and take in the whole thing if that's what you want me to do?
xcite-tv
06-21-06, 08:58 PM
I am so glad i had something else to do today... Producing content is hard but very rewarding work
the one point that comes over from this thread is .....stop bitching get working and do your thing......If you learn from the right people then you have a better chance to succeed...
but mainly if you piss people off you lessen your chance to sell to them....
perhaps thats one thing PM should take on board..
WordsforHire
06-21-06, 09:03 PM
if teens sell more than mature why the hell was I advised to stare at granny porn all day and set up a damned mature blog! BLEH!
supernewbie
06-21-06, 09:03 PM
and after all this ive still only had the one link...
and after all this ive still only had the one link...
OK, to set up a members area, you can have as little as a 3rd party billing processor. Thats infact all you need, http://www.ccbill.com is the best in most peoples opinion. That will give you billing, password managment, affiliate managment and a secure members area for a starter
Tell us what links you actually need or what for and I shall endevour to point them out. Or tell us what you have now and we will try and fill in the gaps :)
supernewbie
06-21-06, 09:16 PM
nice one thanks, i was basically just after tips on who to use for the members area service, rarther than Google "how to set up a paysite" and end up being returned with thousands of results. Just like to hear from the real porno massive whats best then I go and research, research, research.
if teens sell more than mature why the hell was I advised to stare at granny porn all day and set up a damned mature blog! BLEH!
Mature and granny are two different niches.
nice one thanks, i was basically just after tips on who to use for the members area service, rarther than Google "how to set up a paysite" and end up being returned with thousands of results. Just like to hear from the real porno massive whats best then I go and research, research, research.
First things first. I would advise that you get in touch with www.ccbill.com and ask them to set up your processing and members area login for you.
supernewbie
06-21-06, 09:23 PM
ta
Paul Markham
06-21-06, 09:59 PM
but mainly if you piss people off you lessen your chance to sell to them....
perhaps thats one thing PM should take on board..
Here's somthing to take on board. Buy for the good of your members, not your own ego.
if teens sell more than mature why the hell was I advised to stare at granny porn all day and set up a damned mature blog! BLEH!Depends on the sites and who is selling it. Look at all the big single site, or just a few site, companies and see how many of them are teen sites. Then on the other hand people will tell you teens don't sell at all.
Sites like Lightspeed, Karups, ATK, Teendreams, Alsscan, Sapphic, DDF, and many more do sell though.
But maybe when they tell you teens do not sell they mean thay can't sell them.
Supernewbie, before you contact CCBILL you have to have a working paysite for them to approve.
xcite-tv
06-21-06, 11:36 PM
Here's somthing to take on board. Buy for the good of your members, not your own ego.
I am confused now... what should i buy for my members????
please dont say your content...I may spit my dummy out
supernewbie
06-22-06, 11:46 PM
Supernewbie, before you contact CCBILL you have to have a working paysite for them to approve.
Getting a bit confused here, how can I have a working paysite if I dont have a billing processor first? Sorry about this, bear in mind im fairly new to this, kind of need things spelling out.
Getting a bit confused here, how can I have a working paysite if I dont have a billing processor first? Sorry about this, bear in mind im fairly new to this, kind of need things spelling out.
You need to have a site in place, ie: a members area with content, it won't be a "working paysite" unless you already have another processor, but you will need to have it all uploaded more or less, so they can check it out.
supernewbie
06-23-06, 12:04 AM
OK, thats what i thought! thanks.
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