View Full Version : Two kids shot in Manchester estate.
Really can't imagine ever living in a shit area like that.
heidi84
06-05-06, 09:35 AM
That is awful! Kids cant play any where safe at all now SGS doesnt matter where you live, i live in a nice house on a quiet street in a nice location but i wont let my boy play out with the kids near us cos i never know what will happen.
how old were these kids and were they shot by other kids?
heidi84
06-05-06, 09:37 AM
That is awful! Kids cant play any where safe at all now SGS doesnt matter where you live, i live in a nice house on a quiet street in a nice location but i wont let my boy play out with the kids near us cos i never know what will happen.
how old were these kids and were they shot by other kids?
Not that you should keep kids under lock and key!! I forgot to say my sons nearly 4 so hes only small btw :)
That is awful! Kids cant play any where safe at all now SGS doesnt matter where you live, i live in a nice house on a quiet street in a nice location but i wont let my boy play out with the kids near us cos i never know what will happen.
how old were these kids and were they shot by other kids?
I would take my chances in a decent area every time. I cant imagine bringing up kids in a place like that.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/5047480.stm
I think they said the kids that were shot were 15 and 13 and police say it wasn't a random shooting.
Is the world getting more scarey or do I just give a fuck these days?
heidi84
06-05-06, 09:49 AM
I would take my chances in a decent area every time. I cant imagine bringing up kids in a place like that.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/5047480.stm
Yeah i know what youre saying i wouldnt want to bring up my son Joshua on an estate like that and i dont think Aaron would let me lol. Im glad where i live is ok im just worry too much i guess, but at least i dont have to worry about it as much as those poor people do living with the threat of that happening to them!
Is the world getting more scarey or do I just give a fuck these days?
At least it still makes the news. When it stops being news, then we are fucked. I wonder if a 13 year old gets shot in the Bronx, would it still make the news?
dvtimes
06-05-06, 10:22 AM
You do not know what this is about.
It could be that the kids shot have been selling drugs, or parents sell drugs. As such it was a drug thing.
But in truth to me England is becoming a much less plesent place to live. Everybody these days thinks they are a mr big gangster.
heidi84
06-05-06, 10:43 AM
You do not know what this is about.
It could be that the kids shot have been selling drugs, or parents sell drugs. As such it was a drug thing.
these boys were young boys even if it was drugs surly there are other ways of dealing with this? Adults selling drugs to children is a different matter and the adults deserve to be shot, but NO child derserves to lose their life as they are only children.
these boys were young boys even if it was drugs surly there are other ways of dealing with this? Adults selling drugs to children is a different matter and the adults deserve to be shot, but NO child derserves to lose their life as they are only children.
15 year olds think they are terry tuff nut gangsters, not all, but a lot do.
So a drug dealer deserves to be shot, well if this 15 old is a drug dealer then surely he should ne shot, no?
If a 15 year old can kill someone why should he/she be immune from the same treatment. What I mean is, you say they are only kids so don't deserve to be shot, but they would be quite happy to shoot or stab you.
Like DVT said, we don't know what is was about, maybe they raped a 10 year old girl, maybe they shot someone, maybe they burgled an 80 year old woman and beat her, you just don't know.
dvtimes
06-05-06, 11:20 AM
I am only sugesting the kids were involved with drugs.
They may not have been.
I am just sugesting that, simply as Manchester has a lot of dealers.
And drive by shootings are normaly conected to drug dealers.
By the way does it say what sort of gun was used?
dvtimes
06-05-06, 11:24 AM
15 year olds think they are terry tuff nut gangsters, not all, but a lot do.
So a drug dealer deserves to be shot, well if this 15 old is a drug dealer then surely he should ne shot, no?
If a 15 year old can kill someone why should he/she be immune from the same treatment. What I mean is, you say they are only kids so don't deserve to be shot, but they would be quite happy to shoot or stab you.
Like DVT said, we don't know what is was about, maybe they raped a 10 year old girl, maybe they shot someone, maybe they burgled an 80 year old woman and beat her, you just don't know.
15 may be a child. But in fact we hear of cases where 11 year olds have raped others, and murdered others.
The one way to sell drugs is to go to primary and middle schools, seek out the bully/tough kids. Give them a ton of heroin to hand out free. Very soon you end up with a bunch of kids hooked for mabe years. They then have to steal to pay for the drugs.
Drugs are after all extreamly easy to buy. They are also cheap.
dvtimes
06-05-06, 11:28 AM
15 may be a child. But in fact we hear of cases where 11 year olds have raped others, and murdered others.
The one way to sell drugs is to go to primary and middle schools, seek out the bully/tough kids. Give them a ton of heroin to hand out free. Very soon you end up with a bunch of kids hooked for mabe years. They then have to steal to pay for the drugs.
Drugs are after all extreamly easy to buy. They are also cheap.
In fact in truth this is why it would be better to legalise brothels.
At the moment you have many girls on the streets simply to pay for there drugs. In efect its the drug dealers who are the pimps.
In theory girls in brothels would have to be regulary checked for drug use.
But of couse we live in the UK where people hide there heads in the sand untill its too late.
dvtimes
06-05-06, 12:03 PM
They just showed this on the news.
In truth the area does not look that bad.
One thought I had was that they said this gunman drove up to several kids. My thought is that it could have been these kids have been anoying people, such as harasing people in there homes. Often the police do sod all, just say have a word with the parents.
So mabe somone got fed up and gave somone a few quid to sort out things a bit quicker.
Personaly if some kids where upsetting my gradparents by throwing stones at there house and shouting on a night, I would simply by a michety and slam it into the kids legs. If they die, what do I care.
So I am wondering if this person was paid to shoot these kids. After all they werte not killed, so I suspect they were shot to create problems rather than to kill them.
mOBSCENE
06-05-06, 12:18 PM
Hmm, not far from the Apollo - been to a lot of gigs there and not been shot, even went in one of the pubs when the line around the venue was too long and it was cold as fuck, but it's not so cool when there's not a gig on and there's nobody around.
its bad I know but sometimes I feel like shooting the kids around here the little chavy bastards are always starting shit and this is a nice area!
ok I don't really wanna shoot them but I wouldn't mind kidnapping a couple of them in a van, taking them out into a field and making them think I was gonna kill them seriouslyl they are right little bastards
dvtimes
06-05-06, 12:28 PM
its bad I know but sometimes I feel like shooting the kids around here the little chavy bastards are always starting shit and this is a nice area!
ok I don't really wanna shoot them but I wouldn't mind kidnapping a couple of them in a van, taking them out into a field and making them think I was gonna kill them seriouslyl they are right little bastards
Why is it bad to feel that. You feel like that as kids are alowed to do this.
If as we know police do nothing, or at worst the kids may get as Asbo, you feel frustrated.
If you work 40 hours a week, then find some shit has damaged your car, and nothing is done. You will feel angry.
So if somone has got fed up, then mabe they simply paid somone. Personaly if this was the case, I wonder if thers in the street will have seen anything. It could be no one saw anything.
This is somthing I can see hapening more and more.
What makes me laugh is that I wouldn’t even want to drive around one of these shit house estates let alone bring kids up in one. Makes you wonder what the fuck the parents are on.
dvtimes
06-05-06, 01:11 PM
This is the problem when you alow the common people to have rights.
I would sugest that unless you have a degree, you should not be alowed to drive, vote or indeed have a say.
I often am amazed when a common type person starts to chat with me, as if they are on the same level.
This is the problem when you alow the common people to have rights.
I would sugest that unless you have a degree, you should not be alowed to drive, vote or indeed have a say.
I often am amazed when a common type person starts to chat with me, as if they are on the same level.
LoL
I guess all towns have bad areas, i must admit Manchester has a few
its bad I know but sometimes I feel like shooting the kids around here the little chavy bastards are always starting shit and this is a nice area!
ok I don't really wanna shoot them but I wouldn't mind kidnapping a couple of them in a van, taking them out into a field and making them think I was gonna kill them seriouslyl they are right little bastards
We actully did this many years ago. All these mouthy little fuckers were giving it the big un, so my mate pulled up, I jumped out and grabbed the one shouting the most. We drove him through the Blackwall Tunnel and chucked him out, we then went back to his mates and told them where he is and they could have the same. Funnily enough they were a bit quieter, we did go back through, picked him up and dropped him back with his mates. We didn't get any hassle from them after that :devil:
what the fuck the parents are on.
Probably a small wage or even the dole, I don't think many would actually choose to live in these places. If you can't afford to buy then you have to take whatever the council gives you.
Probably a small wage or even the dole, I don't think many would actually choose to live in these places. If you can't afford to buy then you have to take whatever the council gives you.
Funny though that they can always afford to smoke, drink and breed.
mOBSCENE
06-05-06, 01:42 PM
Funny though that they can always afford to smoke, drink and breed.
People have always managed those through time immemorial!
WordsforHire
06-05-06, 03:51 PM
I cant afford to live in an posh place SGS, I have druggies two floors above me and down the street. The place isn't bad don't get me wrong but it's not where I want to bring up Alyssa that's for sure.
Unfortuantely when you can;t afford a plush house in a posh place you do have to go where you are put. I didn't have any choice in settling here but as I will always say it is temporary. I certainly dont drink, smoke and breed thank you very much.
This area isn't the nicest, there are lots of neds, people sitting in our stairwell at night keeping the kid up but at least they are not brigning out guns or putting fireworks through our door (should I say yet?)
I can only do so much here with the house, it looks nice on the inside but it's not a desirable area. I don't sponge, I don't whine about it. I just deal. I'm not happy about it either but it's one of those things that can't be helped. It's a stepping stone to a better place, that's the way I see it.
I don't whine about it. I just deal.
Mind you don't get nicked :takethat:
WordsforHire
06-05-06, 03:57 PM
LOL har har har
mOBSCENE
06-05-06, 04:04 PM
I cant afford to live in an posh place SGS, I have druggies two floors above me and down the street. The place isn't bad don't get me wrong but it's not where I want to bring up Alyssa that's for sure.
Unfortuantely when you can;t afford a plush house in a posh place you do have to go where you are put. I didn't have any choice in settling here but as I will always say it is temporary. I certainly dont drink, smoke and breed thank you very much.
This area isn't the nicest, there are lots of neds, people sitting in our stairwell at night keeping the kid up but at least they are not brigning out guns or putting fireworks through our door (should I say yet?)
I can only do so much here with the house, it looks nice on the inside but it's not a desirable area. I don't sponge, I don't whine about it. I just deal. I'm not happy about it either but it's one of those things that can't be helped. It's a stepping stone to a better place, that's the way I see it.
I'm sure if your business goes well one day you can get a place in a much nicer area. Unfortunately even then you will face drugged up rock stars, ex-boxers speeding in their cars, and other scum. Unfortunately there is scum in all strata of society, and I can also say some of the best and nicest people I have met come from council estates and the like :cheers2:
WordsforHire
06-05-06, 04:06 PM
Thanks Mobscene, that's what Im hoping for!
I don't want Alyssa growing up to be like some of the kids around here, I know most of them from school and unlike me they are STILL hanging around street corners drinking and smoking and the likes! It's pathetic really....
I hear what you're saying, Paul's sister married into money and lots of it and she lives on a very posh estate, however, there is still the "posh scum" that booze every weekend, fail around in the street shouting obscenities at their neighbours...Blah, you can't win!
mOBSCENE
06-05-06, 04:14 PM
Thanks Mobscene, that's what Im hoping for!
I don't want Alyssa growing up to be like some of the kids around here, I know most of them from school and unlike me they are STILL hanging around street corners drinking and smoking and the likes! It's pathetic really....
I hear what you're saying, Paul's sister married into money and lots of it and she lives on a very posh estate, however, there is still the "posh scum" that booze every weekend, fail around in the street shouting obscenities at their neighbours...Blah, you can't win!
You can if you're SGS and have your own estate all to yourself with gates to keep out the riff raff - thought I'd get that in before he does :)
WordsforHire
06-05-06, 04:28 PM
Heh, Lucky for some LOL....
Ok maybe not Luck, it was hard work and all but he got there, no reason i cant...eventually ;)
i wanna know what they shot them with to have one kid take 5 and still be living?
must have been a small calibre maybe a converted brocock? 5 in one kid and 1 in the other 6 shots would figure too
I don't want Alyssa growing up to be like some of the kids around here, I know most of them from school and unlike me they are STILL hanging around street corners drinking and smoking and the likes! It's pathetic really....
The great thing about this business is that you can work hard and get on. We used to work for the 3rd richest guy in the UK (back in the 80s) and he came from a very humble background. All you need is the drive to do it.
I hear what you're saying, Paul's sister married into money and lots of it and she lives on a very posh estate, however, there is still the "posh scum" that booze every weekend, fail around in the street shouting obscenities at their neighbours...Blah, you can't win!
There are "posh estates" and nice areas. Not all are like the one you describe by a long long way. :)
I cant afford to live in an posh place SGS, I have druggies two floors above me and down the street.
Just re-read this and if you are really living in a place like that and you are in the adult business you need to ask yourself if you are on the right track.
WordsforHire
06-05-06, 06:51 PM
I dont have a choice but to live here unfortunately and unless you live on "manor"vill there will br drug users wherever you go! They arent into those nasty things with needles but drugs are drugs!
I have the drive, I just need to get there...It all takes time, and I do believe I am in the right place, just not in that cushy place to get a fancy pad lol! Give it time, we are on track...I havent been in adult for long but making steady process, lets face it, there is only so much I can write and I dont believe in getting others to write for me, hence the new sites getting developed at present...:)
there is only so much I can write and I dont believe in getting others to write for me, hence the new sites getting developed at present...:)
That’s what you need to do. Writing a story or an article and then selling it just once is the problem that you have to overcome. You need to develop sites and then sell the same text to a multiple of people so that you get a recurring long-term return.
Believe me if I had druggies living above my kids I would sell everything I had and do anything that I had to do to change that.
WordsforHire
06-05-06, 07:40 PM
Well to be honest, if I did sell everything I owned, I would still be about 80-100k short of a decent aread two bedroom house lol! But Im trying...And slowly but surely I am getting there...I just have to wait unfortunately..
Well at the moment, Paul is developing a resource site, I'm currently looking at developing a reviews site and then posibbly moving onto a content site, selling stories, audio stories, reviews and such...I just need to wait untill I have the funding for that one, the review site is simple enough... :) Getting there heh
Well at the moment, Paul is developing a resource site, I'm currently looking at developing a reviews site and then posibbly moving onto a content site, selling stories, audio stories, reviews and such...I just need to wait untill I have the funding for that one, the review site is simple enough... :) Getting there heh
Don’t want to be negative but I think you are straying further on the wrong track. B2B is getting more competitive by the day and a review site is just a waste of your writing skills.
WordsforHire
06-05-06, 07:56 PM
B2B?
I don't know what else I can apart from get in front of the camera!!!
I am after all only a writer, I am not techincal in any aspect so that kinda leaves me stooped as to what I can do and how far I can go, just now that is...
Elisha Jade
06-05-06, 07:58 PM
I don't know what else I can apart from get in front of the camera!!!
We've got the cameras ;)
WordsforHire
06-05-06, 08:02 PM
Damn 2 mins till that response...Here was me betting on 5!! lol ;) You know I love you deary and when or rather if I do I will be there...
B2B?
I don't know what else I can apart from get in front of the camera!!!
I am after all only a writer, I am not techincal in any aspect so that kinda leaves me stooped as to what I can do and how far I can go, just now that is...
B2B = Business to business.
As you are a writer you can add value to content. You could buy or shoot some content and then put text with it and build a site.
WordsforHire
06-05-06, 08:24 PM
So maybe skip the review site idea and go straight to the content site, buy in some content and work stories around the photos/movies?
Hi WordsforHire,
Have you considered taking on a few of our "Record Your Own" phone lines ?
We could provide you with phone lines that you would write the content for on any topic you choose such a Fantasies / Advice lines / Diary etc,etc afterwhich you would read these through onto the lines (Which is a bit like like recording an answering machine message, all very straight forward) If you personally didnt want to read the content through yourself then perhaps you could have someone do this on your behalf such as a friend.
Our outpayment on "Record Your Own" is 86p for every min sold (Keep in mind we pay by the second, no minimum monthly amount required)
We do not charge you for your lines, so no financial risk to you whatsoever :)
I'm not familiar with your site/s so dont know the kind of traffic levels (Hits) you get but if it's a reasonable amount then the lines could well provide some handy additional income whilst allowing you to do what you enjoy.
Feel free to drop me a PM if interested.
So maybe skip the review site idea and go straight to the content site, buy in some content and work stories around the photos/movies?
Yes but why sell the content when you could build your own paysite?
WordsforHire
06-05-06, 08:32 PM
Paul is looking down that road, personally I don't want to open a paysite just yet. We are too new to adult just now and I feel we don't know enough about how it works or the procedures and the likes. I wnt to know a lot about things before I jump into the deep end lol, and a paysite is the deepend!
I have no clue about setting up a paysite, what's involved, what I need to do, how much I'll need to pay out! These are all things that need ot be researched I suppose...
So instead of selling a content site, open a paysite with my stories and picture sets? That would actually sell??? People would sign up for that?
Paul is looking down that road, personally I don't want to open a paysite just yet. We are too new to adult just now and I feel we don't know enough about how it works or the procedures and the likes. I wnt to know a lot about things before I jump into the deep end lol, and a paysite is the deepend!
I have no clue about setting up a paysite, what's involved, what I need to do, how much I'll need to pay out! These are all things that need ot be researched I suppose...
So instead of selling a content site, open a paysite with my stories and picture sets? That would actually sell??? People would sign up for that?
If you’ve really got the drive you’ll find out what it takes. Its really not rocket science.
WordsforHire
06-05-06, 08:39 PM
I suppose it isnt, I'll just get my ass in gear and do it I suppose lol!!!
All it takes is reading, trial and error, no reason I cant huh...
God help me...
Elisha Jade
06-05-06, 08:40 PM
I couldn't resist it :)
WordsforHire
06-05-06, 08:43 PM
You cheeky thing you *spank* lol
Well you could always start off by using PAYC "Pay-As-You-Click" sell your stories for $2-5 dollars each. Its a first step into paysites and also should give you some good experience at operating a website. You won't get rich but should be a good learning curve and put you in good stead for any future ventures you undertake etc..
No setting up of payment processors its all done for you, they will even build the site for you, if you feel you haven't got the skills required to carry out the task yourself ?
http://www.payasyouclick.com/adult.htm?payc=303338
All the best Bluey
I suppose it isnt, I'll just get my ass in gear and do it I suppose lol!!!
All it takes is reading, trial and error, no reason I cant huh...
God help me...
Also, why not speak to DVT as he has some really original underexposed content that would really work well with some text?
Shandy McAndy
06-06-06, 09:43 PM
Also, why not speak to DVT as he has some really original underexposed content that would really work well with some text?
Some is quite over exposed too :)
If you need more writing jobs, you could try the freelance sites...there's elance.com, scriptlance.com, etc. Won't be adult, but you can pick who you want to do business with and there's plenty of demand etc.
Is there a reason you're only interested in adult? If you thoroughly enjoy writing, you can just write original content for your own mainstream Adsense sites...get them linked up, have a network of them pulling SE traffic, etc.
WordsforHire
06-06-06, 09:57 PM
I wrote mainstream before joining adult and I seriously dont think going back to $5 for a 1000 word article is going to do me any good.
I used SL and RAC religiously (jadem24 is the username on both sites, got lovely feedback!)
I wrote everything from poker to weddings! It just bored me, adult lets me be creative rather than writing facts, figures and techincal jargon...Adul is also more fun than writing on home construction.
The problem with mainstream is when you are writing people expect $3 per job and I for one will never lower myself to that level again, it isn't worth my time. I work just as hard as any programmer, designer or web site builder out there and just because "it's only words" shouldn't mean my time is less valuable.
Gah sorry about that rant, I get pissed off about these things, because we are writers we should be expected to take less for our work even though we work just as hard and as long as other internet professionals out there.
You can't make a living from freelance sites as the indian competition is just too high. People on those sites don't seem to care about quality, they just take the cheap stuff and tweak it a little. I fought too long to go back to that... :)
I wrote mainstream before joining adult and I seriously dont think going back to $5 for a 1000 word article is going to do me any good.
I used SL and RAC religiously (jadem24 is the username on both sites, got lovely feedback!)
I wrote everything from poker to weddings! It just bored me, adult lets me be creative rather than writing facts, figures and techincal jargon...Adul is also more fun than writing on home construction.
The problem with mainstream is when you are writing people expect $3 per job and I for one will never lower myself to that level again, it isn't worth my time. I work just as hard as any programmer, designer or web site builder out there and just because "it's only words" shouldn't mean my time is less valuable.
Gah sorry about that rant, I get pissed off about these things, because we are writers we should be expected to take less for our work even though we work just as hard and as long as other internet professionals out there.
You can't make a living from freelance sites as the indian competition is just too high. People on those sites don't seem to care about quality, they just take the cheap stuff and tweak it a little. I fought too long to go back to that... :)
No problem with rants. This is business not art and in this business you need to build a solid foundation as quickly as possible. If you are a writer you can add value to a product and you need to do that ASAP.
WordsforHire
06-06-06, 10:46 PM
Absolutely SGS, I just need to figure out the most productive and profitable way to do it...
mOBSCENE
06-06-06, 10:46 PM
I wrote mainstream before joining adult and I seriously dont think going back to $5 for a 1000 word article is going to do me any good.
I used SL and RAC religiously (jadem24 is the username on both sites, got lovely feedback!)
I wrote everything from poker to weddings! It just bored me, adult lets me be creative rather than writing facts, figures and techincal jargon...Adul is also more fun than writing on home construction.
The problem with mainstream is when you are writing people expect $3 per job and I for one will never lower myself to that level again, it isn't worth my time. I work just as hard as any programmer, designer or web site builder out there and just because "it's only words" shouldn't mean my time is less valuable.
Gah sorry about that rant, I get pissed off about these things, because we are writers we should be expected to take less for our work even though we work just as hard and as long as other internet professionals out there.
You can't make a living from freelance sites as the indian competition is just too high. People on those sites don't seem to care about quality, they just take the cheap stuff and tweak it a little. I fought too long to go back to that... :)
As a fellow writer I feel for ya - I'm pushing galleries and porn and writing my adult blogs rather than writing my next novel - but the porn is going to let me do some writing again pretty shortly (half a thriller on the the shelf!)
What about writing a nice mucky Jilly Cooper/Jackie Collins tome, 1000 words a day and you've got a brick after a year. Who knows if it'll sell, but worth a try - Stephen King threw Carrie in the bin 25 years ago, remember!
Maybe full length printed page erotica is also an avenue?
WordsforHire
06-06-06, 10:49 PM
It is my absolute in life to write a book. I want to get books out like Christine Feehans and Laurelly K Hamiltons. They are my author heroes and I love their books to bits, there is such a following for erotica it is quite unbeliveable but I couldnt just do one bit at a time...
I would need to focus a whole two or three months writing, once I get on a roll I don't like to stop, plus there is all the research needed on top of that if you want a storyline that is effective. Have you ever read from those two mentioned above?
If your a fan of that stuff I could send some stuff to you, they are delicious...
Some is quite over exposed too :)
:gaylords:
WordsforHire
06-06-06, 10:50 PM
Maybe full length printed page erotica is also an avenue?
Hmm not quite sure what you mean?
Absolutely SGS, I just need to figure out the most productive and profitable way to do it...
Writing one-off pieces for one-off fees is just too inefficient. Anything else you do with text is more productive and far more profitable. Look at the big picture and build a recurring income.
mOBSCENE
06-06-06, 10:56 PM
Hmm not quite sure what you mean?
It's all right, I never know what I mean either - just meant erotica rather than mainstream mucky...
Actually, it's late, I think I need sleep! :)
It's all right, I never know what I mean either - just meant erotica rather than mainstream mucky...
Actually, it's late, I think I need sleep! :)
Nite :)
WordsforHire
06-07-06, 12:47 AM
I hear ya SGS ok will get something done about that tomorrow, in the meantime must go sleepy...
I have a very funny post comin on the blog at 7, its very funny...Will post a link to it in the morning unless someone beats me to it heh (hint hint)
Night gents... *hugs*
"The problem with mainstream is when you are writing people expect $3 per job and I for one will never lower myself to that level again, it isn't worth my time. I work just as hard as any programmer, designer or web site builder out there and just because "it's only words" shouldn't mean my time is less valuable."
I hope you don't think my post was suggesting that your work was only worth $2-3 dollars PAYC was just a suggestion and my prices were based on the fact that you can't charge more than £5.00 per item Obviously this programs not for you
WordsforHire
06-07-06, 07:05 PM
That wasnt targetted to you at all bluey, sorry if you got that feeling!
I just mean in general about the freelance sites is all, not to you specifically hun. I worked from them for about 6 months and it was living torture lol...I much prefer working with you guys in adult, you are more fun and dont have something stuck up your arse all the time heh!
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