View Full Version : UK to introduce "photograph a cop, 10 years in jail" law
dvtimes
02-21-09, 10:23 PM
UK to introduce "photograph a cop, 10 years in jail" law (http://www.sott.net/articles/show/174862-UK-to-introduce-photograph-a-cop-10-years-in-jail-law)
The relationship between photographers and police could worsen next month when new laws are introduced that allow for the arrest - and imprisonment - of anyone who takes pictures of officers 'likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism'.
Set to become law on 16 February, the Counter-Terrorism Act 2008 amends the Terrorism Act 2000 regarding offences relating to information about members of armed forces, a member of the intelligence services, or a police officer.
The new set of rules, under section 76 of the 2008 Act and section 58A of the 2000 Act, will target anyone who 'elicits or attempts to elicit information about (members of armed forces) ... which is of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism'.
A person found guilty of this offence could be liable to imprisonment for up to 10 years, and to a fine.
The law is expected to increase the anti-terrorism powers used today by police officers to stop photographers, including press photographers, from taking pictures in public places. 'Who is to say that police officers won't abuse these powers,' asks freelance photographer Justin Tallis, who was threatened by an officer last week.
Tallis, a London-based photographer, was covering the anti-BBC protest on Saturday 24 January when he was approached by a police officer. Tallis had just taken a picture of the officer, who then asked to see the picture. The photographer refused, arguing that, as a press photographer, he had a right to take pictures of police officers.
According to Tallis, the officer then tried to take the camera away. Before giving up, the officer said that Tallis 'shouldn't have taken that photo, you were intimidating me'. The incident was caught on camera by photojournalist Marc Vallee.
Tallis is a member of the National Union of Journalists and the British Press Photographers' Association. 'The incident lasted just 10 seconds, but you don't expect a police officer to try to pull your camera from your neck,' Tallis tells BJP.
The incident came less than a week after it was revealed that an amateur photographer was stopped in Cleveland by police officers when taking pictures of ships. The photographer was asked if he had any terrorism connections and told that his details would be kept on file.
A Cleveland Police spokeswoman explained: 'If seen in suspicious circumstances, members of the public may well be approached by police officers and asked about their activities. Photography of buildings and areas from a public place is not an offence and is certainly not something the police wish to discourage. Nevertheless, in order to verify a person's actions as being entirely innocent, police officers are expected to engage and seek clarification where appropriate.'
The statement echoes the Prime Minister's answer to a petition signed by more than 5700 people. Gordon Brown reaffirmed, last week, that the police have a legal right to restrict photography in public places.
'There are no legal restrictions on photography in public places. However, the law applies to photographers as it does to anybody else in a public place. So there may be situations in which the taking of photographs may cause or lead to public order situations or raise security considerations,' Downing Street says.
'Each situation will be different and it would be an operational matter for the officer concerned as to what action if any should be taken in respect of those taking photographs. Anybody with a concern about a specific incident should raise the matter with the chief constable of the relevant force.'
However, Liberty, which campaigns on human rights, has decried the excessive use of stop-and-search powers given to police officers under section 44 of the Terrorism Act. The group's legal director, James Welch, said the powers were used too widely.
In December, freelance press photographer Jess Hurd was detained for more than 45 minutes after she was stopped while covering the wedding of a couple married in Docklands.
She was detained under section 44 of the Terrorism Act. Her camera was forcefully removed from her, and while she showed her press card, three police officers insisted on viewing the footage she had taken.
'Any officer who suspects an offence has been committed has the right to detain you,' a Metropolitan press officer told BJP at the time. 'Because you are a press photographer does not preclude you from being stopped under section 44 of the Terrorism Act. If the officer thought the photographer acted suspiciously, and especially if it was in a sensitive place, he had a right to detain and question the photographer.'
The tension between police officers and photographers is not limited to the UK. Last week, Icelandic police fired pepper spray on photojournalists as they were covering protests in front of the country's parliament building.
Kristjan Logason, a press photographer in Iceland, tells BJP that he was targeted along with other press photographers. 'The Icelandic police systematically tried to remove photographers by pepper-spraying them,' he says.
The photographers were covering a protest in front of the Althing parliament building in the capital Reykjavik. Iceland's financial system collapsed in October under the weight of billions of dollars of foreign debts incurred by its banks.
Already seven photographers have come forward as having been targetted by the Icelandic Police.
Johnny Kleenexxx
02-21-09, 11:02 PM
because filming dibble is almost the only way to stop them giving someone a kicking
dvtimes
02-22-09, 12:24 AM
because filming dibble is almost the only way to stop them giving someone a kicking
its sad but true.
why else would they want to stop picks being taken.
johnboy
02-22-09, 01:12 AM
The sooner we get this shower out the better
why else would they want to stop picks being taken.
http://www.officerduplicity.com/wp-content/uploads/Image/funny-police.jpg
???
mOBSCENE
02-22-09, 09:53 AM
http://www.officerduplicity.com/wp-content/uploads/Image/funny-police.jpg
???
Is that the latest from Vanbabes?
Johnny Kleenexxx
02-22-09, 10:06 AM
Is that the latest from Vanbabes?
LOL
The new set of rules, under section 76 of the 2008 Act and section 58A of the 2000 Act, will target anyone who 'elicits or attempts to elicit information about (members of armed forces) ... which is of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism'.
I would have thought a photo of a policeman on my camera is likely to be useless to a terrorist, given that I don't generally give terrorists access to my camera...
I would have thought a photo of a policeman on my camera is likely to be useless to a terrorist, given that I don't generally give terrorists access to my camera...
So what do you do with the pics after you've taken them ? Upload them to a site, put them on a blog, email them to someone, store them on your comp ?
On top of that you could loose your camera say on the way home from taking pics of Buck House (& the "Fuzz") or you could even be followed & have your camera lifted from you.
Not for one second agreeing with this new law just pointing out that there are ways of pics of those whom protect us from getting circulated, especially so in this digital age.
:)
dvtimes
02-22-09, 12:59 PM
So what do you do with the pics after you've taken them ? Upload them to a site, put them on a blog, email them to someone, store them on your comp ?
On top of that you could loose your camera say on the way home from taking pics of Buck House (& the "Fuzz") or you could even be followed & have your camera lifted from you.
Not for one second agreeing with this new law just pointing out that there are ways of pics of those whom protect us from getting circulated, especially so in this digital age.
:)
what differece does a pic make?
its not like they are mi5 or somthing.
why should 'some' police be worried about having there pic taken?
most decent police love to have there pic taken. i mean the local bobbi is usually loving his pic in the paper.
I would have thought a photo of a policeman on my camera is likely to be useless to a terrorist, given that I don't generally give terrorists access to my camera...
unless, of course, you are the supposed terrorist.
dvtimes
02-22-09, 01:07 PM
one thing that amuses me is all these terrists that are out there.
do you think any terrist gives a hoot what a copper looks like.
in fact do you think any terrist needs to take pics?
surly they go onto google maps.
its simply to make us all feel scared so they can bring in even more laws.
plus if you were a terrist and needed to take pics, surly you just buy a spy camera for a few quid, one of thse that are tiny that you attatch to your jacket.
some kids near me have a super one that is attatched to there head (you cannot see it), they use it when they go climbing to film the view from there head as they v
climb.
one thing that amuses me is all these terrists that are out there.
do you think any terrist gives a hoot what a copper looks like.
in fact do you think any terrist needs to take pics?
surly they go onto google maps.
its simply to make us all feel scared so they can bring in even more laws.
plus if you were a terrist and needed to take pics, surly you just buy a spy camera for a few quid, one of thse that are tiny that you attatch to your jacket.
some kids near me have a super one that is attatched to there head (you cannot see it), they use it when they go climbing to film the view from there head as they v
climb.
You are right to a point, if you are a corrupt government trying to setup a totalitarian police state the last thing you want is all the great unwashed taking pictures or video of coppers beating the living shit out of ppl or generally abusing their human rights and posting it all over the internet. What you want is a convenient argument about terrorists and the threat they serve to the coppers so lets bring in more draconian laws to save us all from these nasty terrorists or yet said in another way to yet another layer of state control over us all.
dvtimes
02-22-09, 03:41 PM
You are right to a point, if you are a corrupt government trying to setup a totalitarian police state the last thing you want is all the great unwashed taking pictures or video of coppers beating the living shit out of ppl or generally abusing their human rights and posting it all over the internet. What you want is a convenient argument about terrorists and the threat they serve to the coppers so lets bring in more draconian laws to save us all from these nasty terrorists or yet said in another way to yet another layer of state control over us all.
i think it was only last week when a top person from MI5 (i think it was mi5) said the uk laws had gone over the top and did not help.
the problem is people still presume the police/goverment are 100% correct.
its a bit like last week where that muslim chap is in prison and they are trying to get him out of the country, and the home secritry saying she was pleased. on the radio shows everyone phones in saying he is scumm, and so on.
yet. and this is the big yet, unless i am mistaken he has not been charged with anything in the uk. in other words you have ministers stating he is guilty before being charged/sentanced.
now he may be guilty, but suly we still have inicent before proven guilty.
but then again when you have a home secretary claiming cash for a second home when she spends a day or two at her siter-in-law what faith do you have.
dvtimes
02-22-09, 03:44 PM
it will not be long before if you state that a policman or goverment person is doing somthing wrong, then you will be sentanced to prison - probably without charge.
we already have cases where now the press has stories shut down as polotitions have said that the stories or an invasion of privacy. as such papers are stoped from printing anything.
dvtimes
02-22-09, 03:46 PM
years back i pointed out that what laws are introduced reflect those when natzi party took over germany.
and each year we get the same laws.
in germany people put up with it as they trusted the goverment. in fact people used to say in germany if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. same as many white middle class people do in the uk.
I think the old bill should be allowed to give people a slap anyway so photographing it wouldn't matter anyway.
I think the old bill should be allowed to give people a slap anyway so photographing it wouldn't matter anyway.
Yeh until its you or your own getting a slap for doing nothing wrong just because they feel like it.
Yeh until its you or your own getting a slap for doing nothing wrong just because they feel like it.
I didn't say if you did nothing wrong, but if you have a slap is a good idea.
I didn't say if you did nothing wrong, but if you have a slap is a good idea.
Its all about the degree of what you have done wrong, and where is a slap just a slap and not a punch or worse? The filth are getting tazers now its only a matter of time before its standard issue and not in the hands of specialist firearms units and just in the hands of normal coppers, I also think many of them have a 'us vs them' attitude which makes them all the more likely to take out their loathing of the general public with excessive force.
I think the 'Us V them' are a pretty small minority. I know and have known quite a few plod over the years, and to be honest, one guy was a complete wanker, the rest were normal people who happened to earn their living being coppers.
Maybe it's different in other areas
I think the 'Us V them' are a pretty small minority. I know and have known quite a few plod over the years, and to be honest, one guy was a complete wanker, the rest were normal people who happened to earn their living being coppers.
Maybe it's different in other areas
I totally disagree and do think most have a us and them attitude. I think that when "normal" people join the police the are made into police and with that comes the attitude.
Its all about the degree of what you have done wrong, and where is a slap just a slap and not a punch or worse? The filth are getting tazers now its only a matter of time before its standard issue and not in the hands of specialist firearms units and just in the hands of normal coppers, I also think many of them have a 'us vs them' attitude which makes them all the more likely to take out their loathing of the general public with excessive force.
The problem is that nowadays the police will nick you for any two bob reason. Years ago you could swear at old bill and they would tell you to fuck off. Now its all "public order" bollocks.
Years ago I used to go to a nightclub in Woolwich, when we came out there were always old bill outside so we would wind them up. I stuck my head in a police car window and was taking the piss, I pulled out just in time to avoid old bills fist. I did no more and neither did he, now I would have been nicked for drunk and disorderly or some such shite.
Another time I was pissing in a doorway, it was an old Cinema so it had those deep exits round the back so you couldn't really see much, well old bill did. He just slapped me round the back of the head and called me a dirty bastard, job done.
The police would probably prefer to deal with things like that but they are just so tied. They only have to look at someone the wrong way and they get accused of police harrasment or whatever.
I think that when "normal" people join the police
anyone going into a profession which main point it is to control and enforce power on others can be assumed to have a certain mindset to begin with. at least if they stay on for good and do not quit after seeing what it's all about.
The problem is that nowadays the police will nick you for any two bob reason. Years ago you could swear at old bill and they would tell you to fuck off. Now its all "public order" bollocks.
Years ago I used to go to a nightclub in Woolwich, when we came out there were always old bill outside so we would wind them up. I stuck my head in a police car window and was taking the piss, I pulled out just in time to avoid old bills fist. I did no more and neither did he, now I would have been nicked for drunk and disorderly or some such shite.
Another time I was pissing in a doorway, it was an old Cinema so it had those deep exits round the back so you couldn't really see much, well old bill did. He just slapped me round the back of the head and called me a dirty bastard, job done.
The police would probably prefer to deal with things like that but they are just so tied. They only have to look at someone the wrong way and they get accused of police harrasment or whatever.
Im totally with you on all of that, it now seems the new breed of filth arnt willing to play those games, now its 'we are god' you do as we say, I think one of the main ways this cultural shift has happened is through the policing of the drunks as per any town or city centre throughout the week but especially on weekends. Its almost like warfare with coppers having to sort out mass's of overly drunk people all bent on giving them as much grief as possible, faced with that day in and day out it would condition you into a certain mind set id say. Probably one of the main reasons the drinking culture has taken off or being allowed to with 24/7 drinking and cheap booze everywhere, just another way to harden the coppers for the police state we are quickly moving towards.
anyone going into a profession which main point it is to control and enforce power on others can be assumed to have a certain mindset to begin with. at least if they stay on for good and do not quit after seeing what it's all about.
I know two three people that joined and left the force because of the culture, one guy now in his 50's left in the 80's after it all started changing away from community policing, the others are young lads who went into it to do the right thing or so they thought but they ended up quickly leaving because the culture of the force, you have to be a thug and you cant mix with anyone but a copper or so ive heard anyway.
strictlybroadband
02-23-09, 11:16 AM
I totally disagree and do think most have a us and them attitude. I think that when "normal" people join the police the are made into police and with that comes the attitude.
Agree. A girl I knew joined the police, and gradually cut her links with the real world, bit by bit. She started out normal, and gradually had to sink to lowest common denominator. When she first joined she used to object to extreme racism and dumb attitudes within the force, but soon learned her career wouldn't be going anywhere unless she joined the crowd.
Johnny Kleenexxx
02-23-09, 11:39 AM
I think the 'Us V them' are a pretty small minority. I know and have known quite a few plod over the years, and to be honest, one guy was a complete wanker, the rest were normal people who happened to earn their living being coppers.
Maybe it's different in other areas
only takes a few bad apples to make dealing with them a total lottery
things have improved somewhat, but even upto 80's & early 90's it was
not uncommon to get a kicking from the boys in blue in Manchester if
you pushed your luck with the wrong coppers.. but if we all had mobile
video on us back then, we probably could have made them think twice..
"your word against mine lad.. who do you think they're gonna believe ?"
dvtimes
02-23-09, 02:07 PM
The thing is, when I watch UK tv cop shows, basicly the police come accross as realy thick morons who are brutal.
Then I watch US cop show, and they act politly and seem to be brigter.
In fact there was a program about the usa last month were the police went on a drugs bust. Non of that screaming and going brutal as the uk police do. In fact in there state they have to knock and alow people to anser.
They were arrested, and everyone (both drug growers and police) were polite.
UK police are just thugs.
And now they have new rights to use reasanable force !!!! Often you can see police just wanting an excuse to get in there.
To some up. UK police are thick, often fat, brital thugs.
Mike Semen
02-23-09, 06:06 PM
To some up. UK police are thick, often fat, brital thugs.
I disagree. No doubt there's plenty of those, but there's also (a few) decent coppers.
Having said that the pig who threatened to smash my face into the pavement was not one of them...
These laws are definitely the beginning of the UK's decline into a police state. Its hard not to think that there's a longer term goal here...
who would want to be a copper nowadays anyway, they spend all day chasing crims only to see them get off scot-free or give silly little slaps on the wrist. it really pisses me off watching those Street-Crime type proggys where joy-riders are basically told not to be naughty and let off to do it again.
I've heard some real horror strories from a female copper i know, she once had to give CPR on some lowlife who had tried to run from the police in a car and crashed it. all the while she was tending to this chav, his mates were spitting at her! apparently she was knee-deep in this kids guts and although it was obvious that he was dead, she and her partner had to carry on CPR as it was the only way to stop his mates beating them up before back-up arrived. Who would want to work like that?
Johnny Kleenexxx
02-23-09, 06:35 PM
some coppers here are so laid back that i seen some kids just leg it
away while they're talking to them, and the cops just shrug & grin..
but they have their hardcore plain clothes hitsquads that will hood you
and tywrap you in public, then carry you away waving badges at people,
you have to do something firearms/terrorist or large class A related,
shame the UK cops couldn't pull the same on Jean Charles de Menenez
These laws are definitely the beginning of the UK's decline into a police state. Its hard not to think that there's a longer term goal here...
you are 12 years off.
These laws are definitely the beginning of the UK's decline into a police state.
Good, bout time some decent law and order is bought about again. This democracy shit is bollocks. Nothing works better than a good dictatorship and police state.
Hopefully the first thing they will ban is people in this country spending 13 hours a day trying to find more things to moan about.
Oh and adding to that, people have far to many freedoms in this country and the police have far few powers.
Be a lot less pissed up cunts glassing each other and puking up in the city centres if they knew they were going to be put in the back of a van and given a fucking good kickin :twocents:
The problem is that nowadays the police will nick you for any two bob reason. Years ago you could swear at old bill and they would tell you to fuck off. Now its all "public order" bollocks.
Years ago I used to go to a nightclub in Woolwich, when we came out there were always old bill outside so we would wind them up. I stuck my head in a police car window and was taking the piss, I pulled out just in time to avoid old bills fist. I did no more and neither did he, now I would have been nicked for drunk and disorderly or some such shite.
Another time I was pissing in a doorway, it was an old Cinema so it had those deep exits round the back so you couldn't really see much, well old bill did. He just slapped me round the back of the head and called me a dirty bastard, job done.
The police would probably prefer to deal with things like that but they are just so tied. They only have to look at someone the wrong way and they get accused of police harrasment or whatever.
The police have had all their powers taken away, they can do fuck all without every cunt moaning about police state this and my civil liberties that.
If when you knicked a car stereo and knew that 1) you was going to get a decent punishment if it goes to court and b) you was going to get a slap from the old bill if they caught you, you would think twice.
Johnny Kleenexxx
02-23-09, 08:03 PM
i was friendly with a young wpc, even on her days off she was still clocking out of date tax discs
http://geekofalltrades.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/robocop-792844bmp.jpg
strictlybroadband
02-24-09, 11:20 AM
you are 12 years off.
More like 20 years - that's when the police were given government approval to attack party-goers, ravers and hippies on their way to Stonehenge.
xcite-tv
02-24-09, 11:32 AM
More like 20 years - that's when the police were given government approval to attack party-goers, ravers and hippies on their way to Stonehenge.
Good old Thatcher... Where is she when we need her ?
strictlybroadband
02-24-09, 11:35 AM
Good old Thatcher... Where is she when we need her ?
At death's door.
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