View Full Version : Labour, them gorn (?)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1920254,00.html
Tories 37%
Labour 36%
Liberal Democrats 18%
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/12/11/ncam11.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/12/11/ixnewstop.html
Tories 37%
Labour 35%
Liberal Democrats 21%
Even if those numbers happen at the next General Election, you might find that Labour remains in power due to the vagaries of our electoral system. My psephology's a bit rusty, but I think you'll find that the opposition needs around 42% of the popular vote to obtain a working majority.
The Lib Dems are probably more worried than the government. A lot of their existing MPs and most of their targeted constituencies are head-to-head fights with the Tories.
Not gone yet. Its gonna depend on alot of things, and its a long time away.
After Blair goes, Labour will pick a new leader. Of course everyone expects it to be Brown, but I think when push comes to shove they will pick a younger leader to fight David
so who could be the next face of Labour, IYO?
Even if those numbers happen at the next General Election, you might find that Labour remains in power due to the vagaries of our electoral system. My psephology's a bit rusty, but I think you'll find that the opposition needs around 42% of the popular vote to obtain a working majority.
The Lib Dems are probably more worried than the government. A lot of their existing MPs and most of their targeted constituencies are head-to-head fights with the Tories.
obviously no poll says anything about how people will feel about things a week later.
what i do seem to see though is that changes are taken notice of, so not all hope seems to be lost yet.
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 12:09 PM
instead or worrying about who will win we need to get the population of their fat backsides to vote. The turn outs are piss poor and a disgrace, the unemployed should have to vote or loose their benefits for starters, as for the two parties and the two leaders. Do you really want young bloke who live on TV couldnt name the Iraqi leader -I think we have had enough puppets in office.
We need wise people with an understanding of global and local issues to represent us not some jumped up young gun.
what i do seem to see though is that changes are taken notice of, so not all hope seems to be lost yet.
There is, as someone else said, a long way to go yet.
Cameron's debut at PMQs was a very clever performance. Aside from a couple of occasions when Blair has been confronted directly by members of the public (Question Time before the last election was one, when the problems about making an appointment with GPs were raised), I can't recall him appearing to be so unsure of how to pitch a response. It made some nice headlines for the Tories, but it remains to be seen whether or not they can keep it going.
Whatever, at the next election most likely it will be the usual feelgood factors concerning the economy, health, pensions and education that will have the greatest impact.
instead or worrying about who will win we need to get the population of their fat backsides to vote. The turn outs are piss poor and a disgrace, the unemployed should have to vote or loose their benefits for starters
So you're turning your attention to the unemployed now?
instead or worrying about who will win we need to get the population of their fat backsides to vote. The turn outs are piss poor and a disgrace, the unemployed should have to vote or loose their benefits for starters, as for the two parties and the two leaders. Do you really want young bloke who live on TV couldnt name the Iraqi leader -I think we have had enough puppets in office.
We need wise people with an understanding of global and local issues to represent us not some jumped up young gun.
So they turn up and because they HAVE to vote they just write bollocks across the paper.
So they turn up and because they HAVE to vote they just write bollocks across the paper.
It works well, Australians have to vote by law, I dont see its necesarry a bad thing. Anyone 18 must register and show up at a polling station, they can write bollocks on their ballot or do nothing at all.
But leaving it that only the Unemployed have to vote seems a bit silly, as surely people who are to lazy to get a job are not the best people to decide who is in government.
But maybe addopting a fair electrial system so that peoples votes actually count towards something would meen higher turn outs
anyone thinking that an election with forced votes is any better or any more representative needs their head examined. i prefer those voting who have the faintest clue about what they are voting for to begin with.
having said that, about 2% would qualify, if at all.
additionally, those speaking up for the forced voting also seem to be those bitching most about wasted tax money (be it for disabled or unemployed, take your pick)
so there is no issue with wasting tax money on making new laws, having those new laws published, having those new laws enforced, just to suit your ideal of a 100% voter turn out.
Jupers we all gotta vote here or get dicked $50. And thats $50 that coulda been well spent at the pub or bottelo. :crown:
-N
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 02:59 PM
So you're turning your attention to the unemployed now?
Yes when it comes to voiting - If labour said we will scrap all benefit they would soon turn up and vote - and the type of person who is to idle to consider getting s job - theres too many of them and if they want to claim from the country they should at the very least contribute.
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 03:07 PM
anyone thinking that an election with forced votes is any better or any more representative needs their head examined. i prefer those voting who have the faintest clue about what they are voting for to begin with.
having said that, about 2% would qualify, if at all.
Ok lets take you view here - what will happen is this mate -
communities that communicate within the UK will rustle up lots of votes, they will then see their people elected into office - which is fair - when their people are there the laws will then begin to change to support the communities who voted them there.
So what you have to ask yourself is are you prepared to change YOUR culture to support the new one we are creating through our own laziness.
I dont want to sound rude but theres a lot of people of this baord that live in some sort of bubble where they think this type of evlolution is never going to happen. If you dont vote you are a leach on the system and should have no say no rights. Its always the sames people in the pub moaning about blair ask them if they voted 'No couldnt be bothered' wish they couldnt be bothered to breath!
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 03:09 PM
additionally, those speaking up for the forced voting also seem to be those bitching most about wasted tax money (be it for disabled or unemployed, take your pick)
why should tax pay for disabled people dude? Its like the lottery - If I play money goes to good causes, why? If I go to the track and place a bet with william hill they dont give money to good causes.
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 03:23 PM
Whatever, at the next election most likely it will be the usual feelgood factors concerning the economy, health, pensions and education that will have the greatest impact.
Heart & Minds Politics - and we all swallow every last line. The one thing the David said which I did think 'wow frsh of breath air' was
'we agree with you and want to work with you to get these improvements through' its not likely to last more then a few months though this approach would be a massive step forward for politics in this country :)
I dont want to sound rude but theres a lot of people of this baord that live in some sort of bubble
precisely. you for example. by thinking if you force someone to vote they will cast a vote that has any meaning or value. someone not willing to do it will either be ill on that day or make some cross where ever they feel like at that very moment, or scribble FUCK YOU on the ballot paper.
why should tax pay for disabled people dude? Its like the lottery - If I play money goes to good causes, why? If I go to the track and place a bet with william hill they dont give money to good causes.
i think you voiced your despite towards the disabled in a dedicated thread already, use that one for further bullshit on it, cheers. :)
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 03:37 PM
i think you voiced your despite towards the disabled in a dedicated thread already, use that one for further bullshit on it, cheers. :)
its was about parking spaces, not disabled people :)
its was about parking spaces, not disabled people :)
but of course Paul. ;)
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 03:51 PM
precisely. you for example. by thinking if you force someone to vote they will cast a vote that has any meaning or value. someone not willing to do it will either be ill on that day or make some cross where ever they feel like at that very moment, or scribble FUCK YOU on the ballot paper.
yes some would more then likely people would not, people for years have died so we can vote, women went through hell just so other women could vote.
it should be one of our key laws and duties as a citizan, everyone who lives here should contribute. We shouldnt have to carry people who are too lazy to take an interest in how our country is controlled.
If they dont want to vote let em go live under communist rule for a couple of years, they will soon put a x in the box.
it should be one of our key laws and duties as a citizan, everyone who lives here should contribute.
what's your deal about contributing? are you suggesting non voters do not work or pay taxes?
you have strong opinions. wrong ones, but still opinions. maybe you could explain them a bit more?
Yes when it comes to voiting - If labour said we will scrap all benefit they would soon turn up and vote - and the type of person who is to idle to consider getting s job - theres too many of them and if they want to claim from the country they should at the very least contribute.
And what about other people claiming state benefit, like the disabled?
Oh! I understand! You don't want them to be compelled to vote because they'd use all the parking spaces close to the polling station.
Where's Alf these days anyway? :cry:
If they dont want to vote let em go live under communist rule for a couple of years, they will soon put a x in the box.
So you believe that putting a cross in a box once every four or five years equates to democracy? How sad!
And what about other people claiming state benefit, like the disabled?
Oh! I understand! You don't want them to be compelled to vote because they'd use all the parking spaces close to the polling station.
I dont think my mrs has voted in recent years ... but thinking about it she's registered disabled .. maybe there's a link ...
Where's Alf these days anyway? :cry:
he is with us, on a regular basis. :)
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 04:18 PM
pretty simple you live here, you benefit from free health care, free education, inferstructure, enforced law, future security.
We have to vote about 1 every two years, it takes a small amount of time, can be done via the post and in some cases online. You can come up with excuses all day long but by not voting you are opting out.
As for my view HF I would like to see the following
Citizan Ship - When people emigrate here they should under go some education to learn about the UK our history, our cultures beliefs.
Education - I would send all the kids to church once a week and have the children spend time in their own communities esp the elderly. There would also be a uniform that EVERYONE wears, detentions would be spent cleaning the streets or doing community work.
I would scrap -
Possitive discrimination, All night drinking hours, the smoking ban from pubs, the passport fee, income tax for low earners.
I would bring in -
ID cards, a cap on benefit per household, capital punishment, tourism tax, national service.
Well there you have it my monster raving loney tunes party :-)
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 04:22 PM
So you believe that putting a cross in a box once every four or five years equates to democracy? How sad!
no, its the finale :)
We have to vote about 1 every two years
We vote for our government once every four years, give or take a month here and there, for the time its actually called for.
strictlybroadband
12-11-05, 04:23 PM
Parties always get a bounce with a new leader - the polls in 6 months will be more representative of reality. One things for sure: Cameron's learned all of Blair's tricks in media relations. And nowadays, presentation is more useful than substance. So he's got a better chance than the last few Tory leaders.
Well there you have it my monster raving loney tunes party :-)
LOL never a more true word typed :lmao2:
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 04:28 PM
We vote for our government once every four years, give or take a month here and there, for the time its actually called for.
we do a local election too mate - thats is just as important if not more so as this is where some people make their names and go on to bigger and better things :)
I would bring in -
ID cards, a cap on benefit per household, capital punishment, tourism tax, national service.
http://www.winworld.co.uk/warren.jpg
we do a local election too mate - thats is just as important if not more so as this is where some people make their names and go on to bigger and better things :)
I thought we was talking about government and people who make the laws, forgive me it seems we was also talking about councils who decide how much we pay for our bins to be collected.....I must keep up
Citizan Ship - When people emigrate here they should under go some education
Education? What a good idea! It might help some of the natives with their spelling.
Tell me, should all dyslexics be forced to vote? If so, would a tick or a nought suffice in place of a cross?
One things for sure: Cameron's learned all of Blair's tricks in media relations.
He used to be in PR with Carlton, the TV company, so he probably knows a few of his own as well.
forgive me it seems we was aslo talking about councils who decide who much we pay for our bins to be collected
Councils have a limited say in even that much. Over 80% of local authority funding is allocated by central government. And, of course, if council tax is levied at too high a level, central government can respond by cutting its grant to the local authority concerned. That is one of the biggest scandals of our system of government.
pretty simple you live here, you benefit from free health care, free education
so one doesn't pay taxes when one doesn't vote? :lmao2:
you do know how these things are paid for, yes? not saying you were dumb, just making sure you really do just spout crap rather than simply being uninformed.
Citizan Ship - When people emigrate here they should under go some education to learn about the UK our history, our cultures beliefs.
you immigrate here, you emigrate there. mind your being british that you highlighted earlier. ;)
secondly, what does a belief system have to do with anything?
also, explain how you man of god can peddle porn?
Education - I would send all the kids to church once a week and have the children spend time in their own communities esp the elderly.
you can fuck off if you think you'd lay just ONE hand on the upbringing of my children, Nazi.
ID cards,
another control freak thing, you clearly show your Nazi mind there, mate. :)
a cap on benefit per household
based on what, please lay out your plans and rules for that.
tourism tax
explain that one as well.
let's see if you just repeat propaganda or if there are original thoughts in that cute head of yours. :)
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 05:34 PM
tourism tax - when I travel to places such as Greece I as a non national pay addiltional taxes for going into musems or places of interest. We should charge all tourists a % items such as travel and entrance fees.
Benefits - 50 per week would be enough for a family of four to live on. Notice I say live on here I dont mean, smoke drink and dress in designer gear I mean live on. Taking into account the house / rent and council tax is all being paid for. With families that smoke I would give them food parcels, so they could not spend it on fags.
Education - why not go to church, its just a building, they can just talk about the local community and issues and news. beleive me we have some amazing buildings that if the youth sat inside my inspire them to greater things.
ID Cards - You got something to hide? I have a drivers licence, NI number, Passport, Tax code - the police if Im in my car can ask me to porduce so I may as well carry one. an ID card makes sense infact I would tag those that refused to carry one or just jail em.
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 05:39 PM
http://www.winworld.co.uk/warren.jpg
:crown:
yes some would more then likely people would not, people for years have died so we can vote, women went through hell just so other women could vote.
it should be one of our key laws and duties as a citizan, everyone who lives here should contribute. We shouldnt have to carry people who are too lazy to take an interest in how our country is controlled.
If they dont want to vote let em go live under communist rule for a couple of years, they will soon put a x in the box.
BULLSHIT! Not everyone who doesn't vote doesn't because of laziness. I don't vote because I don't believe in democracy. I'm probably far more informed, and have been far more involved, than most voters, and likely you too, at least on a local level.
I don't vote because there is NO point in my voting while everyone can vote. Society is 80-90% slave class. That doesn't mean slaves in that they should be whipped and opressed etc, but that through the natural way society is made up (like ants and bees etc) a great proportion of the people in it are there only to work and "support" the society structure. Their nature is to be "looked after" by the leaders. They do the work in exchange for a safe home, someone to look after them and their children, and food on the table, their nature is to be told what to do. Giving them all "a say" through democracy and equal voting rights means that society is run by the slaves.
It's born out by what is happening in democracies around the world. They vote for slave issues. They vote for more and more things that tell them what they should do, where they should live, what they should eat, and how to bring up their children. The educated/leading voice of society gets drowned out by the slave voice. While in democracy slave rule wins, because slaves will always have the majority, at the end of the day that is not going to be a successful and productive society because the hard decisions cannot get made while the leaders are too busy doing what the slaves want and not the other way around.
A class system is a natural part of humankind (again like the bees), denying it's existance is counterproductive to the advacement of the species. I'd personally like to see some kind of registration to vote that involves filtering out the slave mentality, let them have a say on issues that affect them, but don't let them have the ultimate say on anything.
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 05:58 PM
BULLSHIT! Not everyone who doesn't vote doesn't because of laziness. I don't vote because I don't believe in democracy. I'm probably far more informed, and have been far more involved, than most voters, and likely you too, at least on a local level.
I don't vote because there is NO point in my voting while everyone can vote. Society is 80-90% slave class. That doesn't mean slaves in that they should be whipped and opressed etc, but that through the natural way society is made up (like ants and bees etc) a great proportion of the people in it are there only to work and "support" the society structure. Their nature is to be "looked after" by the leaders. They do the work in exchange for a safe home, someone to look after them and their children, and food on the table, their nature is to be told what to do. Giving them all "a say" through democracy and equal voting rights means that society is run by the slaves.
It's born out by what is happening in democracies around the world. They vote for slave issues. They vote for more and more things that tell them what they should do, where they should live, what they should eat, and how to bring up their children. The educated/leading voice of society gets drowned out by the slave voice. While in democracy slave rule wins, because slaves will always have the majority, at the end of the day that is not going to be a successful and productive society because the hard decisions cannot get made while the leaders are too busy doing what the slaves want and not the other way around.
A class system is a natural part of humankind (again like the bees), denying it's existance is counterproductive to the advacement of the species. I'd personally like to see some kind of registration to vote that involves filtering out the slave mentality, let them have a say on issues that affect them, but don't let them have the ultimate say on anything.
If yo dont vote you opt out,
- I'd personally like to see some kind of registration to vote that involves filtering out the slave mentality, let them have a say on issues that affect them, but don't let them have the ultimate say on anything.
This makes some sense.
Why do you feel there is no point in you voting?
tourism tax - when I travel to places such as Greece I as a non national pay addiltional taxes for going into musems or places of interest. We should charge all tourists a % items such as travel and entrance fees.
that strikes me as wrong. maybe they just didn't like you and charged you more cos of that. that happens.
Benefits - 50 per week would be enough for a family of four to live on.
right. bless those with need for a special diet.
Education - why not go to church, its just a building, they can just talk about the local community and issues and news. beleive me we have some amazing buildings that if the youth sat inside my inspire them to greater things.
i see you avoid the subject of belief systems, Nazi. :)
ID Cards - You got something to hide?
you got something to control, Nazi? :)
an ID card makes sense
explain how.
ID Cards - You got something to hide? I have a drivers licence, NI number, Passport, Tax code - the police if Im in my car can ask me to porduce so I may as well carry one. an ID card makes sense infact I would tag those that refused to carry one or just jail em.
The only people who will have real ID cards are the law abiding people, all the illegals and criminals will have forgeries. Is will solve nothing and cost "Tax Payers" billions
If yo dont vote you opt out,
- I'd personally like to see some kind of registration to vote that involves filtering out the slave mentality, let them have a say on issues that affect them, but don't let them have the ultimate say on anything.
This makes some sense.
Why do you feel there is no point in you voting?
What part of the majority is slaves did you miss? My vote CANNOT make a difference in majority rule. Maybe it salves your conscience/ego to think you have your say/make a difference. But I am enlightened enough to realize it's a waste of my time, and a tree.
I don't go to church because I don't believe in god. I don't go to the polling booth because I don't believe in democracy. It wasn't difficult to understand.
NumptyNuts
12-11-05, 10:13 PM
What part of the majority is slaves did you miss? My vote CANNOT make a difference in majority rule. Maybe it salves your conscience/ego to think you have your say/make a difference. But I am enlightened enough to realize it's a waste of my time, and a tree.
I don't go to church because I don't believe in god. I don't go to the polling booth because I don't believe in democracy. It wasn't difficult to understand.
well if you stopped breathing you would be a complete corpse - as I said you opted ouyt mate your view means nothing, :)
well if you stopped breathing you would be a complete corpse - as I said you opted ouyt mate your view means nothing, :)
Maybe you could explain in someway that makes sense to more than just yourself, how voting would make my views mean something?
The way I understand it you think going to the polling booth and spoiling my ballot gives more credit than staying away does. Why?
NumptyNuts
12-12-05, 12:49 AM
Maybe you could explain in someway that makes sense to more than just yourself, how voting would make my views mean something?
The way I understand it you think going to the polling booth and spoiling my ballot gives more credit than staying away does. Why?
because you are accounted for and have expressed your opinion.
The easy option is not to vote, it's an option many people do not have and die trying to get on a daily basis.
Look around you, you only have what you have because your previous generations were civil and contributed to society, I pitty you, it's sad to think you beleive you do not count.
because you are accounted for and have expressed your opinion.
The easy option is not to vote, it's an option many people do not have and die trying to get on a daily basis.
Look around you, you only have what you have because your previous generations were civil and contributed to society, I pitty you, it's sad to think you beleive you do not count.
I have expressed the same opinion by staying away. I haven't wasted my time, the people manning the booth's time, or the people counting the votes time. Time = money so I haven't wasted you precious taxes either. By your logic I should go to church every sunday and tell them it's all bollocks just for the right to say it's all bollocks now.
How exactly does my voting make me "count"? How does your voting make you "count"? I never said I didn't think I counted. What I said is while democracy is in place my voice can never be heard over the sheep majority. I make myself count in many OTHER ways. I pity you for actually thinking you can change anything with a cross on a piece of paper.
It's not the "easy" option at all cos then I have arrogant arses telling me "I don't have a right to a view" because I didn't vote. EVERYONE has a right to a view, whether they vote or not, whether they're in a place that allows them to vote or not, whether they have the mental capability to vote or not, they still have the right to an opinion on it. That's the difference between me and you.
Those people that died to give me the right to vote also died to give me the right not to vote. Forcing me to vote for something I don't want to vote for is no different to taking my vote away completely. It means I have no CHOICE.
Would you make me curtsey to the Queen too? When I don't believe in a higher being at all, whether it be Queen, or God? Making me do something I don't believe in is oppression of my own beliefs and ideals, whether it be voting in a political system, worshipping god, or bowing to some "ruler".
Live in your democracy if you will. Worship your god if you wish. Bow to your queen if it turns you on. Just don't presume to force everyone to live, worship, and bow as you do, and don't take away their rights because they refuse to live as you do (as you just did with my right to an opinion).
The easy option is not to vote, it's an option many people do not have and die trying to get on a daily basis.
nonsense. those people do not die to make your fascist dreams come true, they die for freedom. freedom also meaning freedom of choice, which in your dream world wouldn't exist, Nazi.
cock-a-leekie
12-12-05, 05:45 AM
I love Tony Blair
Just thought I'd put that out there. :crown:
cock-a-leekie
12-12-05, 05:51 AM
Since I’m a tight northerner, I love free hosts too!
But not as much as I love Tony Blair.
NumptyNuts
12-12-05, 10:54 AM
I have expressed the same opinion by staying away. I haven't wasted my time, the people manning the booth's time, or the people counting the votes time. Time = money so I haven't wasted you precious taxes either. By your logic I should go to church every sunday and tell them it's all bollocks just for the right to say it's all bollocks now.
How exactly does my voting make me "count"? How does your voting make you "count"? I never said I didn't think I counted. What I said is while democracy is in place my voice can never be heard over the sheep majority. I make myself count in many OTHER ways. I pity you for actually thinking you can change anything with a cross on a piece of paper.
It's not the "easy" option at all cos then I have arrogant arses telling me "I don't have a right to a view" because I didn't vote. EVERYONE has a right to a view, whether they vote or not, whether they're in a place that allows them to vote or not, whether they have the mental capability to vote or not, they still have the right to an opinion on it. That's the difference between me and you.
Those people that died to give me the right to vote also died to give me the right not to vote. Forcing me to vote for something I don't want to vote for is no different to taking my vote away completely. It means I have no CHOICE.
Would you make me curtsey to the Queen too? When I don't believe in a higher being at all, whether it be Queen, or God? Making me do something I don't believe in is oppression of my own beliefs and ideals, whether it be voting in a political system, worshipping god, or bowing to some "ruler".
Live in your democracy if you will. Worship your god if you wish. Bow to your queen if it turns you on. Just don't presume to force everyone to live, worship, and bow as you do, and don't take away their rights because they refuse to live as you do (as you just did with my right to an opinion).
nice so you are a self centred person - I still pitty you, it must be really sad to go through life with nothing to beleive in, Queen, makes more money for this country then people give her credit for, god, Im not into the bible this does not mean we should cease to use the buildings for getting across community messages......
No doubt you will acept christmas, give and receive gifts and feast on food and wine, just remeber why you are doing that - mind you that will prob be too much effort too.
I guess you must wear your socks in your tracky b's, a white nike baseball cap and drop you litter on the street........thats modern Britain thats what you are endorsing by not having the courrage to go and vote.
Anyhow as I say you opt'd out by not voting, sad sad man
NumptyNuts
12-12-05, 10:59 AM
Nazi.
nah I just think all disabled people should loose their consessions and not be treated like they are children, then again nearly everyone I have met whos disabled wants nothing more then to be treated like an equal, you seem to feel they should have rights above anyone else.
Want to know something, if I was 10 again I would not raise fuck all money for the spastic appeal they did on blue peter, one of the worst things we did was give joe a powered wheel chair, made him lazy he should have pushed it.
nah I just think all disabled people should loose their consessions and not be treated like they are children, then again nearly everyone I have met whos disabled wants nothing more then to be treated like an equal, you seem to feel they should have rights above anyone else.
Want to know something, if I was 10 again I would not raise fuck all money for the spastic appeal they did on blue peter, one of the worst things we did was give joe a powered wheel chair, made him lazy he should have pushed it.
what has this new attack on the disabled to do with the topic, Nazi? it's about your fascist dreams. why is it you do not answer important questions, afraid you are finally shown off as the Nazi you are?
maxdaforce
12-12-05, 04:01 PM
never had a disabled relative or child have you?
i've read some shit on the boards but the crap you write is premier league.
nah I just think all disabled people should loose their consessions and not be treated like they are children, then again nearly everyone I have met whos disabled wants nothing more then to be treated like an equal, you seem to feel they should have rights above anyone else.
Want to know something, if I was 10 again I would not raise fuck all money for the spastic appeal they did on blue peter, one of the worst things we did was give joe a powered wheel chair, made him lazy he should have pushed it.
Thread closed.
I havnt got time to read it, but as far as I can see it wasnt going in a way I liked. Ive also deleted a thread that may or may not have been conected. One under which if this thread wasnt going, I would have allowed to keep.
When I get back later, I may read it and may if I prove to myself to be wrong, re open it
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