View Full Version : Should all coppers be armed or what?
Turns out the woman that was murdered yesterday was killed on her daughters 4th birthday. Fucking sickening. :(
Seems crazy that in this day in age all the majority of UK street coppers have to protect themselves from a bullet is a big stick and a can of cs spray.
I dunno if I'd want to see every single PC toting a sidearm, but surely more & more of them need firearm training... :confused:
Cardinal_Sin
11-19-05, 02:11 PM
Turns out the woman that was murdered yesterday was killed on her daughters 4th birthday. Fucking sickening. :(
Seems crazy that in this day in age all the majority of UK street coppers have to protect themselves from a bullet is a big stick and a can of cs spray.
I dunno if I'd want to see every single PC toting a sidearm, but surely more & more of them need firearm training... :confused:
Always going to be a two sidded answer - No one wants to see police killed likewise no one wants to see the police kill an innocent person (as in the Mixican guy some weeks back -
Arguments are strong on both sides - I would always favour the highly trained to make fewer mistakes as a gun in a nervous criminal hands is likely to go off more easily...
So give the cops guns, in my opinion.
(Geezer and HF - Your turn now)!
mellenig
11-19-05, 02:25 PM
It was a terrible what happened yesterday and the fuckers who did it if they catch them shouldnt see the light of day again. But Im not sure id like to see every copper armed just better equiped and more armed response units. It would be a tough call..
There are more than enough armed police out there as it is.
Do you think that had those to police women had been armed they would not have been shot?
ALL the police in the states carry guns, doesn't stop them from being shot
So if the cops aren't armed in the UK, can kids just run up to them and hit them and run away?
Seems if I were a bad kid that would be my entertainment on a bored friday night.
Though all kidding aside, cops without guns could never work here, even though it may work there. We are way too gun-oriented here and way too many citizens (I believe 1/4 of all American adults) are licensed gun owners.
I fired a gun once at a shooting range- I shot a demilitarized M16, an Uzi, a Magnum .45 Desert Eagle, and a revolver I don't remember. To tell you the truth the guns weren't that much fun, I thought it was going to be this awesome moment, first time firing a gun...it wasn't, I'd rather be masturbating.
guns are loads of fun, if you know how to use them. and compete in shooting contests - which you obviously should win to. :D
I think you guys in the UK are probably one of the few remaining countries in the world that don't have armed police (asside from those spc ops mofos). Down here all cops are always armed and our gun/death rate is pritty rare I guess it's not that sort of public mentality unlike America persay where every argument gets solved by shooting each other. :)
Although the pollies atm are debating over replacing beat cop/s weapons with those usa style electro thingos that shoot the zap wire thingo into the person/s body.
-N
There are more than enough armed police out there as it is.
Do you think that had those to police women had been armed they would not have been shot?
ALL the police in the states carry guns, doesn't stop them from being shot
I think the current situation, as extremely tragic as it is, is quite a poor discussion point of whether police should be armed or shouldnt - in this case the two unfortunate police women didnt know they were going to an armed robbery, it could just as easily have been an irate customer causing a bit of grief. Had they been armed would it have made a difference? Who knows. Maybe the guys wouldnt have fired at them if they had thought they might have had bullets wizzing back at them but likewise maybe they would have reacted even more violently and pedestrians could have ended up getting caught up in it - speculation will get no one anywhere.
According to polls about 80% of the rank and file police in the UK do not want to be routinely armed but a high percentage (cant remember the number) think there should be more armed support available when it is deemed necessary which I agree with.
I think the two things that do need addressing much more urgently is getting more police on the streets instead of stuck indoors doing fucking paperwork and, secondly, proper sentences and punishments to fit the crime - the courts system is just too willing to dish out suspended sentences, probation and community service for crime these days. You do the crime, you do the time - oh and make prisons less like Butlins and more like proper prisons...........
Arming cops wont stop cops getting killed, but it will make those criminals who dont carry guns now think about carrying guns.
Whats stops people doing crime is locking them up when we catch them. Which we still cant manage to do in my opinion. Maybe its time to take the sentancing away from the judges, and have more mandatory sentances, which are more inline with what the public would want
I think the two things that do need addressing much more urgently is getting more police on the streets instead of stuck indoors doing fucking paperwork and, secondly, proper sentences and punishments to fit the crime - the courts system is just too willing to dish out suspended sentences, probation and community service for crime these days. You do the crime, you do the time - oh and make prisons less like Butlins and more like proper prisons...........
:agree:
So if the cops aren't armed in the UK, can kids just run up to them and hit them and run away?
yes if they want to be wacked over the head with a stick or sprayed in the eyes with cs gas :)
You do the crime, you do the time - oh and make prisons less like Butlins and more like proper prisons...........
I believe that if you are caught carrying a knife you should get 7 years, no fucking about, and 7 years should mean 7 years.
If you are caught carrying a gun 10 years no fucking about and 10 years should mean 10 years.
How many of those little fucking hoody clad wankers would decide it's not such a good idea to go out with a knife or even a gun then?
I believe that if you are caught carrying a knife you should get 7 years, no fucking about, and 7 years should mean 7 years.
If you are caught carrying a gun 10 years no fucking about and 10 years should mean 10 years.
How many of those little fucking hoody clad wankers would decide it's not such a good idea to go out with a knife or even a gun then?
:agree: :agree: :agree:
Whats stops people doing crime is locking them up when we catch them.
i'm pretty sure that's done since quite a few centuries. i still read reports on crime though?
it's a human thing, matter of factly an animal one already. if you think you can get away with it, you'll do it.
or if you are desperate enough.
i'm pretty sure that's done since quite a few centuries. i still read reports on crime though?
it's a human thing, matter of factly an animal one already. if you think you can get away with it, you'll do it.
or if you are desperate enough.
point is if your not out you cant commit crime, Im not talking about a deterant, im talking about people who have commited crimes being given sentances that most people would think are reasonable.
does it not make more sense to keep people from comitting crimes to begin with? as a potential victim, i'd prefer not to be harmed rather than seeing them locked up afterwards.
i totally agree with reasonable sentences, i'll go as far as saying murderers where it's 110% sure they are guilty should be knocked off, same with child molesters, off with their heads.
OTOH what is reasonable? if you dish out harsh sentences for minor crimes, why wouldn't a criminal go for a worse crime right away, if the punishment isn't much worse anymore?
does it not make more sense to keep people from comitting crimes to begin with? as a potential victim, i'd prefer not to be harmed rather than seeing them locked up afterwards.
I thought you just said "it's a human thing, matter of factly an animal one already. if you think you can get away with it, you'll do it.
or if you are desperate enough."
Id also prefere the crime not be commited, but if it is then I at least want a sentance that fits the crime. Plus you are less likely to mug an old granny if your still in prison for mugging an old granny before. you dont get to many mugable old grannies in mens prisons
do if you dish out harsh sentences for minor crimes, why wouldn't a criminal go for a worse crime right away, if the punishment isn't much worse anymore?
Who said harsh sentences for minor crimes? Most people want sentances that fit the crime
I thought you just said "it's a human thing, matter of factly an animal one already. if you think you can get away with it, you'll do it.
or if you are desperate enough."
i did. i don't quite see how recognising a fact contradicts my wish for crime prevention?
Id also prefere the crime not be commited, but if it is then I at least want a sentance that fits the crime. Plus you are less likely to mug an old granny if your still in prison for mugging an old granny before. you dont get to many mugable old grannies in mens prisons
absolutely.
let me explain my way of thinking (numbers are just thrown around as examples, cannot be arsed now to look up the actual ones):
if taking someone's wallet by threatening harm gives you 3 years and taking it by knocking them over the head means 4 years, why bother arguing with your victim? a poxy year difference? just knock them over the head and be done with (and give them less of a chance to recognise you later as well).
that's where the definition of reasonable comes into this. finding the balance is definitely not easy.
if taking someone's wallet by threatening harm gives you 3 years and taking it by knocking them over the head means 4 years, why bother arguing with your victim? a poxy year difference? just knock them over the head and be done with (and give them less of a chance to recognise you later as well).
that's where the definition of reasonable comes into this. finding the balance is definitely not easy.
agreed, but at the moment, both versions are unlikely to get you a prison sentence, almost definatly not if its your first time.
if taking someone's wallet by threatening harm gives you 3 years and taking it by knocking them over the head means 4 years, why bother arguing with your victim? a poxy year difference? just knock them over the head and be done with (and give them less of a chance to recognise you later as well).
that's where the definition of reasonable comes into this. finding the balance is definitely not easy.
If, however, prisons were actually a punishment rather than what they actually are then that "poxy year" could make one hell of a difference - at the moment absolutely an extra year on your sentence actually probably means an extra 3-4 months served and all in an environment where you are not being punished. If we had them all breaking rocks in a quarry then that extra year would seem like 10 years compared to today! Its a multi part thing - one part on its own wont necessarily make a difference but put them all together and suddenly the deterrent factor increases ten fold.
If, however, prisons were actually a punishment rather than what they actually are then that "poxy year" could make one hell of a difference - at the moment absolutely an extra year on your sentence actually probably means an extra 3-4 months served and all in an environment where you are not being punished. If we had them all breaking rocks in a quarry then that extra year would seem like 10 years compared to today! Its a multi part thing - one part on its own wont necessarily make a difference but put them all together and suddenly the deterrent factor increases ten fold.
absolutely my way of thinking. let them earn their housing, food, clothes, electricity, warm water, bath stuff, and not just with easy peasy jobs ... this is where my OK for fully proven murderers and child molesters comes from as well. the first has taken a life and therefor lost his right to be a member of society (granted, some circumstances like killing the rapist of your wife/child couldn't happen to all of us and might be considered sort of 2nd rate murders) the second is mostly an ill minded person, with no chance to be cured. cannot let him back into the real world either (remember Dunblane - Thomas Hamilton had a known liking for kids and was also known for violence and owning firearms, as he was disallowed contact to kids, the outcome was to be expected). why should we pay for these assholes' comfort?
there is no need for walk and sports if they are busy with labour 12 hours a day. 8 hours of sleep leaves 4 hours for hygiene and keeping up with the real world, i.e. reading newspapers. those with no proper school education should be forced into learning as well. higher education tends to keep one from the bad side of things more easily than what you learn on the street.
I believe that if you are caught carrying a knife you should get 7 years, no fucking about, and 7 years should mean 7 years.
If you are caught carrying a gun 10 years no fucking about and 10 years should mean 10 years.
How many of those little fucking hoody clad wankers would decide it's not such a good idea to go out with a knife or even a gun then?
I completely agree. Only thing is that there are a lot of kids in their early teens carrying knives to school in the inner cities and slums so sentencing has to be relevant to these little fuckers too. If its not started from the ground up it’s a complete waste of time.
isn't there need for a whole different approach though:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4453744.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4436812.stm
the roots are there in kids already, is it possibly a socitey issue that reaches way further than just crimes and prevention?
If, however, prisons were actually a punishment rather than what they actually are then that "poxy year" could make one hell of a difference - at the moment absolutely an extra year on your sentence actually probably means an extra 3-4 months served and all in an environment where you are not being punished. If we had them all breaking rocks in a quarry then that extra year would seem like 10 years compared to today! Its a multi part thing - one part on its own wont necessarily make a difference but put them all together and suddenly the deterrent factor increases ten fold.
I completely agree again but its time to stop the political correctness and have someone stand up and actually say where these people are coming from. If they are being brought up in an environment where they are third generation unemployed and the state steps in to house and support them then there is something wrong with the country that we live in. They should be made to work for food in prison but they should learn how that works in the outside world first.
You can believe this or believe this not. But its a true fact. One of my friends got prison for selling heroin. Two times in fact. The second time was a 5 year sentance.
I went to visit him with another mate, he was telling us he got blood tested and they found traces of heroin (which is a bigger problem inside than it is out)
So they took away his satalite TV. He had fucking satalite TV in his room! apparantly in the prison he was in, prisoners who have sentances of 5 years and over are allowed satalite TV and prisoners under 5 years only normal TV. This was not an open prison or a soft prison like his first time either. It was fucking Dartmoor
By the way they often do work, he worked an 8 hour day, for which he got paid a small amount. It does give them some instentive not to be complete trouble makers.
On his first sentence, he use to have Fridays where he worked at a real Garage, it was a part of introducing them back into work and the world. He use to work spraying at a garage in Guildford, the garage use to let him go early so he could visit a hooker.
Funny twist, him and the hooker got on really well, she quite liked him in the end and only use to charge him 1/2 price
One of my mates was banged up a while back and while inside, he got a mobile phone in and used to get pissed most nights on the drink that was available, illegaly of course. Drugs were also available.
He was in an open prison and when he cam out he looked like he had been on holiday.
I was in Holloway prison a few years ago, obviously not as an in mate, I was doing some photo's. We were taken to the mother baby unit, now that is sad. Some of the girls had other children outside in care and the babies only stay with them in prison for a few months. So these children are not having the best of starts and so the cycle begins.
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