Today the surfer is KING, treat him as such or others will.

[Paul Markham]

Yesterday the affiliate was king. Today it's changed. Adapt or die.

Powerful words, are they true? Yesterday if the surfer wanted good porn he had to join a site to get it. His options were few and a paysite was his best option, today he has Tube sites and Torrents to get his porn from and besides being free they provide an endless stream of new, to him, scenes.

Paysites have to win back the surfer trust and desire to buy porn, it can be done all it needs is a change in the way we operate. Here are a few ideas that might work to win back those who will spend for the convenience and luxury of getting their porn from a paysite.

Price. If he will only spend $1 for 1 day we have to give it to him. Better if he will spend $3, but we have to balance the effort of winning back those who will not against the long term benefit of changing the way he thinks.

Value. The surfer has to see the value of joining a paysite. Sites with 40 poor porn scenes will not convince a surfer to spend $30 for a month and have done long term harm to us all. We as an industry can give him 400 scenes for his money. We choose to give him 10 sites for $30 to squeeze money out of him. This route is getting harder and harder by the day. Give the customer value for his money, or he will not give it to you. It costs very little to give him mobile phone or ipod porn scenes as an existing options. It's more value for his buck and more reasons to spend it.

Quality. This is another excellent way to win back those who will spend money. Quality comes on different levels. Quality of experience, we have to stop screwing over the surfer before we lose them all. Well managed easy to use sites are customer friendly place. Quality images, Tubes can't deliver a scene in a quality a paysite can. Quality porn is essential. In the niche you're selling, models putting heart and soul into a scene and shot by people who understand the porn they're creating.

We as an industry can no longer rely on the old method of sending more and more traffic to convert the same numbers. We have to convert more of the surfers already landing on our sites. This is the only way forward. The dream that free porn is going away is pointless. The only way it will disappear is if world governments stop porn outside members areas to protect children. Nice idea, we can't wait for it.

Today the surfer is king, treat him like it before others do. Well others are already doing it and we are suffering.

[SGS]

The surfer was always king to us. Give the surfer what they want and they will stick around and generate maximum revenue.

[Damian]

Y Yesterday if the surfer wanted good porn he had to join a site to get it. His options were few and a paysite was his best option, today he has Tube sites and Torrents to get his porn from and besides being free they provide an endless stream of new, to him, scenes.

Yes fair point. Before torrent technology there was no piracy.

People didn't ever sell hooky copies of porn at car boots, didn't ever use Kazza/Napster technology, certainly never used Usenet and had no idea about private FTP servers.

[dvtimes]

Price. If he will only spend $1 for 1 day we have to give it to him. Better if he will spend $3, but we have to balance the effort of winning back those who will not against the long term benefit of changing the way he thinks.

Out of interest how come your doing a £1.60 trial?

[Paul Markham]

Out of interest how come your doing a £1.60 trial?
Very well thank you.

Some surfers will only spend what they decide to spend for what they need. So many offer trials today the situation is if you don't then the porn you have has to be so special and so unique they will pay. SGS is in this situation because he has Lady Sonia. Cardinal Sin might be there because his site is good.

For the rest of us with porn that has little to offer against 100 or even 500 other sites the surfer will decide if he wants this site so badly he will spend $30 or he will move over to a site that has the porn, price and membership he needs.

The trick is to convert the 3 day trial into 30 days and this needs a good members area and content. Plus not lose those who will spend $30 to a $3 sale.

What we have done is offer the affiliate the option of choosing the join he thinks is best for him. Some affiliates are realising there is money in selling short term memberships or trials and getting a lot of traffic and sign ups. Our best trial affiliate converts trials at around 1-20. He has specialised in "trial" traffic.

It would be nice to go back to 1998, but the clock moves forward. If you think it's hard now you're in for a shock unless you change. Those who change will also be taking your traffic.

[S.D.]

Yesterday the affiliate was king. Today it's changed. Adapt or die.

Powerful words, are they true? Yesterday if the surfer wanted good porn he had to join a site to get it. His options were few and a paysite was his best option, today he has Tube sites and Torrents to get his porn from and besides being free they provide an endless stream of new, to him, scenes.

Yet last week you were happily talking about giving even more away for free ?

Paysites have to win back the surfer trust and desire to buy porn, it can be done all it needs is a change in the way we operate. Here are a few ideas that might work to win back those who will spend for the convenience and luxury of getting their porn from a paysite.

Convenience and luxury ? (Waffle)

Price. If he will only spend $1 for 1 day we have to give it to him. Better if he will spend $3, but we have to balance the effort of winning back those who will not against the long term benefit of changing the way he thinks.

You won't, he's fucked off already & enjoying his free porn !

Value. The surfer has to see the value of joining a paysite. Sites with 40 poor porn scenes will not convince a surfer to spend $30 for a month and have done long term harm to us all. We as an industry can give him 400 scenes for his money. We choose to give him 10 sites for $30 to squeeze money out of him. This route is getting harder and harder by the day. Give the customer value for his money, or he will not give it to you. It costs very little to give him mobile phone or ipod porn scenes as an existing options. It's more value for his buck and more reasons to spend it.

See my previous comment above.

Quality. This is another excellent way to win back those who will spend money. Quality comes on different levels. Quality of experience, we have to stop screwing over the surfer before we lose them all. Well managed easy to use sites are customer friendly place. Quality images, Tubes can't deliver a scene in a quality a paysite can. Quality porn is essential. In the niche you're selling, models putting heart and soul into a scene and shot by people who understand the porn they're creating.

In my opinion too much emphasis is put on "Quality", if the surfer can see it he can wank to it & if it's free then he will !

We as an industry can no longer rely on the old method of sending more and more traffic to convert the same numbers. We have to convert more of the surfers already landing on our sites. This is the only way forward. The dream that free porn is going away is pointless. The only way it will disappear is if world governments stop porn outside members areas to protect children. Nice idea, we can't wait for it.

Right, so you've finally stopped fighting the cause, accepted free porn is here to stay & are even considering adding to it as per last week ?

Today the surfer is king, treat him like it before others do. Well others are already doing it and we are suffering.

Nothing new here, we've always treated are customers as "King", it really is a basic fundamental business practice, thanks for the tip though.



In my opinion the paysite concept as we know it is dying on it's arse, there's shit loads of free porn floating around (Some are gonna soon start adding even more) on top of that money is getting tight around the Globe & people are cutting back, across the board, it might be a very long time until the "Feel Good" factor reappears again.

Anyone who enters this business & thinks that starting a pay site is the Route To The Fruit is mental in my view, anyone who is already in this biz who is not considering doing something dramatic & cutting edge & I don't just mean a re-hash of old methods like cheapy trials etc can look forward to a slow & painfull death...the paysite concept is dying on it's arse & I currently see nothing or hear nothing to convince me that this will not continue !



(Disclaimer: I have the right arse ache, I am caught in a shit storm have been for about 10 days, come back at me as hard as you like, I honestly don't give a flying fuck but please try keep it civil)

[Paul Markham]

(Disclaimer: I have the right arse ache, I am caught in a shit storm have been for about 10 days, come back at me as hard as you like, I honestly don't give a flying fuck but please try keep it civil)
As you don't have a solution other than trying to bring down those offering ideas and it's all doom and gloom why bother?

Maybe for you it is all doom and gloom. Will leave you in your misery.

[Geezer]

There have always been those who will buy, those who will never buy and those in the middle who might sign up if they see something they really like the look of. The problem now is that the ones in the middle now have much much more to see without having to buy so they are slowly joining the "never buy" crowd.

There are not less sufers, in fact there more, and there are not less people buying porn, they are just spread more thinly.
Remember Morecambe and Wise?, they used to get viewing figures around 20 million per show, yeah because we only had 3 channels so we watched that cos there was nothing else. We didn't even have a Video back then to watch if M&W was shit.
There are still as many people with TV's, if not more, but the choice is far far greater so audience figures have dropped dramatically.
This is all that has happened with online porn, so we have to make the best of a poor situation.

Maybe the people who are always complaining about this sort of thing simply aren't making enough, maybe they should perhaps consider another line of business.

[JT]

There have always been those who will buy, those who will never buy and those in the middle who might sign up if they see something they really like the look of. The problem now is that the ones in the middle now have much much more to see without having to buy so they are slowly joining the "never buy" crowd.

:agree:


I have sites that are making more sales than ever before, but they are niche and good, but in the main sales with sponsors are down, especially those that are pretty main stream general type sites

[dvtimes]

The problem can also be seen that trials and low price make your site look desperate.

I put up my prices a few weeks ago. To be honet I thought I may have made an error, yet sales have increased.

You could see it like a car. The truth is a car at £5000 and one at £90,000 do the same thing. But the fact that the car is £90,000 makes people want it more.

[JT]

Maybe the people who are always complaining about this sort of thing simply aren't making enough, maybe they should perhaps consider another line of business.


That is happening right now, I am seeing people leaving, I really think lots of people we chat to today will be gone this year, especially this summer, I think over the next few years it will be a much leaner industry.

I think people might be supprised on who are and are not in business at this very minute. Ive heard this morning that a UK sponsor who lots of people use here have gone down the pan and I think its the first of many.

[dvtimes]

The other side is that tube sites mean that you can watch full films free.

My mate is getting a pc for that reason only.

[dvtimes]

I think people might be supprised on who are and are not in business at this very minute. Ive heard this morning that a UK sponsor who lots of people use here have gone down the pan and I think its the first of many.

who is that?

i think one problem is that if somone does not use ccbill, then its simply too tempting to spend the ash on other things. then run out of the cash.

[rogue]

I think people might be supprised on who are and are not in business at this very minute. Ive heard this morning that a UK sponsor who lots of people use here have gone down the pan and I think its the first of many.


eek! who?

[JT]

The problem can also be seen that trials and low price make your site look desperate.

I put up my prices a few weeks ago. To be honet I thought I may have made an error, yet sales have increased.

You could see it like a car. The truth is a car at £5000 and one at £90,000 do the same thing. But the fact that the car is £90,000 makes people want it more.

Ive never done trials, years ago I gave them up, infact someone here told me to and stop promoting sites that have them. My "profit" went up over night, traditionaly sponsors like trials as it makes there conversions look better and also they can upsell, its a nice cheap way of getting someone with their credit card in one hand and there dick in another.

Affiliates liked them as they saw better conversions, but not realising they were making less money.

But that said. I think some sites can benefit from trials now, maybe for some sites that option is back. I think if I had a markham type site with lots of content but not personality driven site, a trial would work.

[JT]

eek! who?


I dont know for sure and so dont want to say, in case it isnt true, not the sort of thing that helps your business, rumors of going down the shitter. But I intend to dig a little and see what is what.

[dvtimes]

Ive never done trials, years ago I gave them up, infact someone here told me to and stop promoting sites that have them. My "profit" went up over night, traditionaly sponsors like trials as it makes there conversions look better and also they can upsell, its a nice cheap way of getting someone with their credit card in one hand and there dick in another.

Affiliates liked them as they saw better conversions, but not realising they were making less money.

But that said. I think some sites can benefit from trials now, maybe for some sites that option is back. I think if I had a markham type site with lots of content but not personality driven site, a trial would work.

i think the big problem with his site is that it looks the same as his content store site. it simply does not feel like a pay site and when i went on it i thought i hit his content site in error. i bet a lot of serfers may do the same thing.

also it feels like its a site of bought content. nothing hits you that paul took the content.

[xcite-tv]

Wow .. Porn now thinks the customer is king.... :cheer:

a bit late to the party.. the good business people always knew this..

As for the bad ones....it may be too late..

[S.D.]

As you don't have a solution other than trying to bring down those offering ideas and it's all doom and gloom why bother?

Maybe for you it is all doom and gloom. Will leave you in your misery.

& your solution is what exactly ?

The things you refer to in your original post are old hat or you should have been doing from day one, I see nothing new or no solution whatsoever in your post.

Is it all doom & gloom for me ? Nope, not attall, far from it but then I'm don't run a paysite & have zero plans to do so, my comments were simply my personal views on the state of affairs.

[JT]

out of interest if the customer is gay is he classed as a king and a queen? could be confusing

[Paul Markham]

The problem can also be seen that trials and low price make your site look desperate.

I put up my prices a few weeks ago. To be honet I thought I may have made an error, yet sales have increased.

You could see it like a car. The truth is a car at £5000 and one at £90,000 do the same thing. But the fact that the car is £90,000 makes people want it more.
I have heard this many times and for a long time agreed with it. Then a big affiliate told me he had amazing success with short term memberships. Not everyone surfing for porn wants to join a site for 30 days. We can't force them unless we have something he needs so badly he will buy. Most porn is not that good or unique.

The 3 day trial has upped our turn over very nicely thank you. Are we picking up those who won't spend $30 for 30 days? Might be. Are we picking up some of those who would of spent $30 for 30 days on someone else's site? Probably.

Are we losing money? No way.

I'm not saying you will not make more money by raising prices. Good on you for doing it. What I am saying is there are lots of different needs out there and we as an industry have to fill them all. Not just the ones that suit us.

[Paul Markham]

Ive never done trials, years ago I gave them up, infact someone here told me to and stop promoting sites that have them. My "profit" went up over night, traditionaly sponsors like trials as it makes there conversions look better and also they can upsell, its a nice cheap way of getting someone with their credit card in one hand and there dick in another.

Affiliates liked them as they saw better conversions, but not realising they were making less money.

But that said. I think some sites can benefit from trials now, maybe for some sites that option is back. I think if I had a markham type site with lots of content but not personality driven site, a trial would work.
Interesting POV. If you lose money by doing trials was it because less people signed up or less stayed for the full term?

If less stayed for the full term it means either the site was not worth it or the member did not want 30 days.

Yes my content is what it is, driven by the content that paysites bought for years. Tells you something about the industry. The new Astral Blue site will be different and it will be interesting to see if the Paul Markham Teens model fits Astral Blue. I don't think it will and will work it differently.

Many think "This WORKS and the only way to go." When they should think "This WORKS for me and the only way I should go." What works for Lady Sonia, will not work for PMT, what works for PMT will not work for Lady Sonia. However so many think it will.

Everything is content driven, yes even traffic, the content the buyer needs dictates the way you sell. Well it should. :noway2:

[Cardinal_Sin]

If less stayed for the full term it means either the site was not worth it or the member did not want 30 days.




I have tried trials and found that 60% who joined this way actually cancelled before going into the members area - Trials are fine for hard up Yanks - That was where 90% of my trial joins came from -
Retention on trials also wasn't good - But membership did grow under trials -

Joins at 29.95 V trials - Not quite as many, but cash intake rose sharply and so did retention.
29.95 V 34.95 (recurring) and 39,95 (1 month) More take the one month option than the recurring - Much more cash intake and retention as good as 29.95 and, strangely, since the higher prices were added, sign up ratios are better than at the 29.95 option.
I personally believe surfers seeing a high join level have much more trust in a site and are quicker to get their cards out.
I remember arguing like fuck with SGS on this board with me saying it is impossible to make more cash without using trials - I bit the bullet and gave it ago - SGS was correct and I was wrong -
Tho - as JT says, trials may work for sites that lack personallity. I couldn't give an opinion on that.

[Paul Markham]

I have tried trials and found that 60% who joined this way actually cancelled before going into the members area - Trials are fine for hard up Yanks - That was where 90% of my trial joins came from -
Retention on trials also wasn't good - But membership did grow under trials -

Joins at 29.95 V trials - Not quite as many, but cash intake rose sharply and so did retention.
29.95 V 34.95 (recurring) and 39,95 (1 month) More take the one month option than the recurring - Much more cash intake and retention as good as 29.95 and, strangely, since the higher prices were added, sign up ratios are better than at the 29.95 option.
I personally believe surfers seeing a high join level have much more trust in a site and are quicker to get their cards out.
I remember arguing like fuck with SGS on this board with me saying it is impossible to make more cash without using trials - I bit the bullet and gave it ago - SGS was correct and I was wrong -
Tho - as JT says, trials may work for sites that lack personallity. I couldn't give an opinion on that.
I would say with your site it was people who do not want 30 days. With your content and I hope the Astral Blue content we can both make more money from not going trials and higher prices would fit.

With PMT IMO it's just not going to work. Well more than my opinion, tried it a few years ago and it did not fly. Should I try it again today on the site?

Nothing to lose, except my argument. :noway2:

[Paul Markham]

Changed it to $34.99, if it does not work I will be sending the bill to JP, CS and DVT. :noway2:

[SimonSubAms]

Then a big affiliate told me he had amazing success with short term memberships.

What year was that?


Not everyone surfing for porn wants to join a site for 30 days. We can't force them unless we have something he needs so badly he will buy.

You don't force them to join you invite them. You give them YOUR price options and its for them to decide whether or not they pay. If they like the site and the content the price isn't an issue.



The 3 day trial has upped our turn over very nicely thank you.

Turnover or conversion ratio?
For me to up turnover with trials I need a conversation ratio at least 3 times better than with non trial. It doesn't come close.

Are we losing money? No way.

But are you making as much as you could be? No way.


Here's something you should be doing that WILL increase your turnover.
Make the monthly option default on your join page and let surfers use the drop down menu to take the trial.

[dvtimes]

Trials work for sites that do not care or even want long term memberships.

Ie, they have spent $100 on content and the rest of the site is upsells, so if people forget to cancell its a bonus.

As I say the problems with pauls site is it does not look like a porn site. It looks like a content store site.

A site needs a reason for people to sign up.

Mine is amaters shot amoterly. Its basic but its for people to watch real people doing things naked such as masterbating. I have got the girls to do this real.

but other sites are sexy hot babes showing all.

these days with tube sites and such you have to offer a reason to sign up. after all its too easy to find high quality full on porn now on the net free.

if you do a trial, the best thing to do is charge £50 for a 3 day trial then £10 per month after that.

I have sined up to a few sites that offer trials and cacell imideatly, often before i have entered the members area. so if others do what i do then they will not stay members even if they like the site.

the other problem is often you can download what you want in the first day.

the trick is to keep people as long in the members area as you can.

[Paul Markham]

What year was that? Late last year.

You don't force them to join you invite them. You give them YOUR price options and its for them to decide whether or not they pay. If they like the site and the content the price isn't an issue.Price is an issue, so is the length of membership. Now you're thinking years back.

Turnover or conversion ratio?
For me to up turnover with trials I need a conversation ratio at least 3 times better than with non trial. It doesn't come close.So your trial traffic does not convert that well. Why would you say that was? Maybe your site is not good enough, maybe the extra people who joined will never join a 30 day membership.

But are you making as much as you could be? No way.So if I take off the trials and lose money will you send me a check for the lost money. We make more money today with trials than we did without. Giving out advice to others is easy, I should know!!. Having to lose by taking the advice is something else. How confident are you?

Here's something you should be doing that WILL increase your turnover.
Make the monthly option default on your join page and let surfers use the drop down menu to take the trial.Good idea, but it's the CCBILL join page. Can I do it with them?

We make more money with trials than we did without them. Why it works for us and not for everyone else is unknown. Every day loads of trial joins come back and join again. Maybe because they fancy jerking off today and have not fancied doing so for a week.

Yes we picked up affiliates who are specialising in this traffic. Yes the PMT site is nothing special in terms of the niche/style. These might be factors. What I am sure of is the extra people we are signing up and often keeping as rebills or repeat members are people who would not of joined us before. They might of joined someone else though. That might worry a few.

Who here will back up their words and pledge to replace the money we lose by taking the trials off?

[Paul Markham]

So if the surfer will spend $30 is the minimum spend on http://www.subams.com/store/ $30?

It seems you're also looking to fit the consumers needs with this site. Lots of different needs out there. :oldman:

[JT]

Who here will back up their words and pledge to replace the money we lose by taking the trials off?

are you offering to give that person the extra profit you make by taking them off?

[dvtimes]

are you offering to give that person the extra profit you make by taking them off?

if he gave you his years profit, what would you do with the $6?

[Paul Markham]

As I say the problems with pauls site is it does not look like a porn site. It looks like a content store site.

Let me think.

http://www.vanbabes.com/index2.htm

or

www.paulmarkhamteens.com/tour/

Which site looks like it will be worth $30???

[JT]

To me this is a purley accounting issue, whay sites do well and dont do well, if its the surfer, if its the site, is really all not of relevance.

Does offering trials over say a three month period pay more or does offering no trials in a three month period pay more.

For me the moment I dropped trials and dropped all sponsors offering trials, my profit rose by a very steep curve, probably actually double. But it was a long time ago so I cant remember exactly.

But is there maybe some sites that would benefit from trials. Almost certainly. Sterlin cash have only just starting offering $1 trials it and they say sales/profits are up.

[JT]

Let me think.

http://www.vanbabes.com/index2.htm

or

www.paulmarkhamteens.com/tour/

Which site looks like it will be worth $30???

LOL :gaylords:

[Paul Markham]

are you offering to give that person the extra profit you make by taking them off?
Yes.

DVT must be thinking we make what he makes. I'll bet we pay my PA makes more a month than he earns. Getting pricey to get good staff here.

[dvtimes]

Let me think.

http://www.vanbabes.com/index2.htm

or

www.paulmarkhamteens.com/tour/ (http://www.paulmarkhamteens.com/tour/)

Which site looks like it will be worth $30???i was going to say that site is new, and that i am getting it desined in a months time, but.......

it still looks more tepting to join that yours.

yes it looks cheap, but it looks warmer and has a persinality.

the problem you have is that you have got it in your head that your design works as its complex and shows so much info.

the problem is it looks too corportate and not sexy.

it will be years before you relise that a simpler sexer site would do better.

[Paul Markham]

To me this is a purley accounting issue, whay sites do well and dont do well, if its the surfer, if its the site, is really all not of relevance.

Does offering trials over say a three month period pay more or does offering no trials in a three month period pay more.

For me the moment I dropped trials and dropped all sponsors offering trials, my profit rose by a very steep curve, probably actually double. But it was a long time ago so I cant remember exactly.

But is there maybe some sites that would benefit from trials. Almost certainly. Sterlin cash have only just starting offering $1 trials it and they say sales/profits are up.
I boldened the bits toy need to consider. A LOT has changed in the last year. We need to think of tomorrow and what we can do to ensure we don't go the way of so many others.

I spoke to a couple of mates of mine last night, both magazines shooters and both better than me. They gave me a list of people I know who are gone, slowed down, shutting up or living on the edge. We moved over to the Internet, then to paysites, that saved us.

If we had thought to stay where we were, we would of gone as well. Scary thought so take it as a bit of advice. The world changes, change with it or it will leave you behind.

[SimonSubAms]

Late last year.


When he told you or when he had the amazing success?


Price is an issue, so is the length of membership. Now you're thinking years back.


No, I'm knowing now.


So your trial traffic does not convert that well. Why would you say that was? Maybe your site is not good enough, maybe the extra people who joined will never join a 30 day membership.


It converts trials as well as any other site. The fact is monthly makes far more money.


So if I take off the trials and lose money will you send me a check for the lost money. We make more money today with trials than we did without. Giving out advice to others is easy, I should know!!. Having to lose by taking the advice is something else. How confident are you?


I'm confident with my sites.
You're the one who doesn't have the confidence with yours.


Good idea, but it's the CCBILL join page. Can I do it with them?


Of course you can.


We make more money with trials than we did without them. Why it works for us and not for everyone else is unknown. Every day loads of trial joins come back and join again. Maybe because they fancy jerking off today and have not fancied doing so for a week.


They join again? So they don't convert? I'm sure you said they converted before. If they are only returning when they feel like it then $2.95 every now and again is you losing out. Surely those would be the surfers that would happily pay $30+ for a month?


What I am sure of is the extra people we are signing up and often keeping as rebills or repeat members are people who would not of joined us before.


How can you be "sure"?


Who here will back up their words and pledge to replace the money we lose by taking the trials off?

This is business. You live and die by your own decisions.
I doubt anyone here cares if you take trials off or not.

[SimonSubAms]

So if the surfer will spend $30 is the minimum spend on http://www.subams.com/store/ $30?

It seems you're also looking to fit the consumers needs with this site. Lots of different needs out there. :oldman:

Absolutely. Different sites for different needs.
They can buy individual downloads or join the members site and get the lot.
Suprising how much people will spend on individual scenes ;)

[Paul Markham]

This is business. You live and die by your own decisions.
I doubt anyone here cares if you take trials off or not.
IT SEEMS A LOT DO CARE!!!

I will be turning the content stores into a clips4sale/mypornshop type site in the near future. I like your idea of the Subams site.

[SimonSubAms]

IT SEEMS A LOT DO CARE!!!

I don't, I don't promote you :P

[QUOTE=Paul Markham]
I will be turning the content stores into a clips4sale/mypornshop type site in the near future.

Content not selling now? :noway2:

I like your idea of the Subams site.

Thanks :)

[Geezer]

Let me think.

http://www.vanbabes.com/index2.htm

or

www.paulmarkhamteens.com/tour/

Which site looks like it will be worth $30???


Looks, being the operative word

If someone is looking for amateur English girls naked in public then I don't think they would consider joining your site let alone paying $30 to do so.

[Paul Markham]

I don't, I don't promote you :P Well you're wasting time posting here. Or are you marketing your way of doing things to affiliates? In which case is it marketing speak or the truth?

Content not selling now? :noway2: Content has not been selling well for 2 years now. Which shows another myth to be sales marketing BS.

"Non exclusive" is saturated. Biggest piece of marketing speak ever. If it were it would mean lots of sites were buying it, the sites would be working and we would be making a fortune. The members would also be getting 5 times the content in a site as well.

And the illustrates one of the problems with the Net. People will support myths to market a site to affiliates. The point of this thread was to say we should market more to surfers and let affiliates pick up the increased sales. Hard to market to affiliates and suit what the surfer needs. The needs are not always the same.

Our porn shop will be ready later in the year. Thinking along the lines of 1400 videos, plus mobile phone and ipod videos. Not sure about the picture sets. Might give them away as freebies.

If it works we will buy in if we can find stuff worth buying in. Will be selling from 50 cents a scene.

[SimonSubAms]

Will be selling from 50 cents a scene.

PMSL