is fisting porn legal in the UK?

[2mmy]

hey

Is there anyone in here thats knows if fisting porn websites are legal to run in the UK, and what about watersports?

Thanks

[MelnAdam]

No, four fingers ok, whole fist no. Pissing fine as long as it's not associated with a sexual act.

[hacknshag]

Where can one read up on these laws especially associated with adult/porn. do they have the regulations scattered across the law books or do they have a special section for it.

[MelnAdam]

There's no specific guidelines published anywhere that I know of. Most of the levels have been set by case law, so you really need to speak to a solicitor that practices in the field.

[dvtimes]

if you use ccbill for payment then i think you cannot do fisting (i could be wrong), so even if your based in the usa, mars, uk, or under tyhe sea, your patment processer could determin what you do.

[SGS]

Only if you do it with your foot. :twocents:

[A Priest]

if people want to look at fisting, whats so wrong with it? what the hell gives people the rights to dictate what people can and cant like?

+1 for liberalism.

[dvtimes]

if people want to look at fisting, whats so wrong with it? what the hell gives people the rights to dictate what people can and cant like?

+1 for liberalism.

do not forget recently they have baned extream bondage and stuff in the uk.

[dvtimes]

Where can one read up on these laws especially associated with adult/porn. do they have the regulations scattered across the law books or do they have a special section for it.

one guide on content for the uk is this site:

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/classification/c_R18.php


'R18' - To be shown only in specially licensed cinemas, or supplied only in licensed sex shops, and to adults of not less than 18 years.
The ‘R18’ category is a special and legally restricted classification primarily for explicit works of consenting sex between adults. Films may only be shown to adults in specially licensed cinemas, and videos may be supplied to adults only in licensed sex shops. ‘R18’ videos may not be supplied by mail order.
The following content is not acceptable:


any material which is in breach of the criminal law, including material judged to be obscene under the current interpretation of the Obscene Publications Act 1959.
material (including dialogue) likely to encourage an interest in sexually abusive activity (eg paedophilia, incest, rape) which may include adults role-playing as non-adults.
the portrayal of any sexual activity which involves lack of consent (whether real or simulated). Any form of physical restraint which prevents participants from indicating a withdrawal of consent.
the infliction of pain or physical harm, real or (in a sexual context) simulated. Some allowance may be made for mild consensual activity. Penetration by any object likely to cause actual harm or associated with violence.
any sexual threats, humiliation or abuse which does not form part of a clearly consenting role-playing game. Strong abuse, even if consensual, is unlikely to be acceptable.These guidelines will be applied to the same standard whether the activity is heterosexual or homosexual.

[MelnAdam]

do not forget recently they have baned extream bondage and stuff in the uk.

Not yet ...

[Willie_Ekkerslike]

Not yet ...

Correct, it's not a law!

But if you go on case studies and pointers from the CPS, then it's something to tread very very carefully with.

Not UK law I know, but it is also something that ccbill will pull you up on.

[Mediaguy]

Technically, fisting is not illegal anywhere in the western world...

However, if there IS a statute somewhere which proclaims such illegality, and does so in finely rendered, explicitly defined legal wording, I would love to read it... if only for the humourous overtures such a document could produce.

The illegality of fisting is a myth started around the time of teh US Meese Commission report, and gained head (ahem) way after American liberties lawyer and defender of adult companies Paul Cambria came out with his "Cambria List".

He meant well, advising his list should be observed to prevent any potential legal problems with the Government...

Well, you can see read the full list here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/porn/prosecuting/cambria.html

As you can see, it's basically a run-down of what were to become some of the most profitable niches in the business, whether it's actual fetish or BDSM content or simple stuff like interracial... I mean, no BUKKAKE???

The whole four-fingers allowed myth also evolved from this list... it became the "Cambria Rule of Thumb" lol...

Oh well he may be in the right, but no one can be right all the time... but it's a great reference for someone interested in developing statistical analyses of niche consumerism in adult, or wanting to launch out of the vanilla "mainstream" of adult...

[MelnAdam]

We're talking about UK porn ........ and fisting is illegal as defined by case law and the OPA.

[SGS]

Technically, fisting is not illegal anywhere in the western world...

Sorry but that is not the correct answer.

[dvtimes]

anal sex has only just become legal in the uk.

[Damian]

anal sex has only just become legal in the uk.

citation needed

[mrcrowley]

Does anyone know the fucking answer?

[Damian]

Does anyone know the fucking answer?

Ask your processor. If they will process it, I think it's safe to guess it's legal.

[Mediaguy]

Neither version of the OPA features or mentions anything about thumbs, fingers or wrists, nor contains the word fisting, noor a description of the full insertion of partner's fist in a recipient's dilated orifice...

In fact there's is nothing more "definite" or defined in the Act than those American articles of law which describe "community standards", nor any UK case law to my knowledge that represents anything more definitive nor idiotic than US Miller Test "rules".

Check with a local barrister or post some links and references to cases in which fisting is set as a precedent. You won't find the act in the Act.

[MelnAdam]

ah, well, I could go to my solicitors and spend a couple of hundred pounds digging out the various bits and bobs but I think I'll bow to your superior knowledge.

By the way, what have you published in the UK? We've only published magazines and dvds for the last 10 years over here .........

[A Priest]

so hang on, promoting fisting sponsors or listing fisting fhg with your ref codes on it, if your living in the UK, is illegal?

[MelnAdam]

If memory serves, if you make money from it, then you're liable but it's late and I'm tired, ask me again in the morning.

[dvtimes]

so hang on, promoting fisting sponsors or listing fisting fhg with your ref codes on it, if your living in the UK, is illegal?

the question is would they prosecute.

i suspect not, unless they expect you to not want the publicity and pleade gulty for say a caution.

its an easy case.

but i am not sure they (cps) would consider it a worthwhile case to go to court with, as i belive they only prosecute if its in public interest. and then it becomes a real pain for them to prove the pics are real and not pretend otr edited and so on.

in reality, its unlikly the cps would want to be seen prosecuting somthing thats not in the public interest. after all, all you would do is sell the story to the papers and try to get your site in the papers.

in fact i have been cheecky several times and asked the local police to charge me, as i have said i could do with the publicity. they refuse each time.

then again these days as an mp said recently its easer to get into oxford university than it is prison.they are even paying people £3k to ex cons to leave the country as the prisons are so packed.

[Willie_Ekkerslike]

The chances are that they would only use that on you if they had you on something else and wanted add more weight to what a naughty boy you are!

[TAC]

As it happens, I have had this discussion with ccbill just today, before reading this post

Their response is :-

Fisting is not against our acceptable use policy. There may be an issue if such fisting also involves extreme violence such as blood.

[Mediaguy]

ah, well, I could go to my solicitors and spend a couple of hundred pounds digging out the various bits and bobs but I think I'll bow to your superior knowledge.

By the way, what have you published in the UK? We've only published magazines and dvds for the last 10 years over here .........

I don't qualify "knowledge" as superior or inferior in the face of facts.

No I don't think I've been published in the UK though it's not impossible... but i'm not into fisting and other socially peripheral acts and kinks that would butt me up against the forces of morality and community stantards.

Have you tried to publish fisting? Have you encountered any judicial resistance of the sort? They may have been attempts, I doubt they were successful.

Anyhow, fisting is not illegal.

There's no definitions of what's illegal in the law in the specificity of acts, and no precedents that set any into stone as a "community standard".

There's currently a Bill before parliament that may broaden powers of prosecutorial discretion or motivate further anti-"obscenity" cases but from my reading of it it's still as vague as the OPA's miller-test of "corrupting and influencing" or whatever is currently being used to interepret obscenity.

I think the one that may apply to fisting is the sub-section about activity that causes or appears to cause pain and bodily damage (something like that) - anyhow, if you're someone who enjoys fisting and can prove no physical ill-effects...

Last I heard the bill was still in debate, and not exactly headed for the statutes yet... though I may be wrong.

They're looking for something to replace the fact that it's now legal for two men or women to do exactly what they damn well please consensually since about 2000 or 1999... i'm not sure when.

Prosecutions have been going down since then. According to a statistic released last year by the government (not loudly) there were less than thirty in the preceding year... and that's cases that went to court, not successfully processed to the Queen's pleasure (I'm sure most were reduced, plead or thrown out though).

I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if my reading hasn't kept up to date and they somehow passed that Bill into law or Parliementary Act very recently, but currently nowhere does it say or precede that fisting is illegal.

Promote the shit out of it.

[Guest]

I think the one that may apply to fisting is the sub-section about activity that causes or appears to cause pain and bodily damage (something like that) - anyhow, if you're someone who enjoys fisting and can prove no physical ill-effects...

Whether or not you can prove no ill effects won't stop you get prosecuted under the CJIA. It's the appearance that fisting might cause a serious injury that gets you into trouble in the first place. However, it's hard to know what a jury would make of fisting images. They could easily go either way and that level of doubt may itself lead the CPS to decide it's too risky to attempt a prosecution.

Last I heard the bill was still in debate, and not exactly headed for the statutes yet... though I may be wrong.

The CJIB is in Lords committee until 12th March.

They're looking for something to replace the fact that it's now legal for two men or women to do exactly what they damn well please consensually since about 2000 or 1999... i'm not sure when.

What are you refering too here?

[Guest]

so hang on, promoting fisting sponsors or listing fisting fhg with your ref codes on it, if your living in the UK, is illegal?

Putting aside the issue of whether or not fisting imagery is illegal under the OPA, you need to have 'ownership, possession or control' of an 'article' before a prosecution can take place.

If you're a site owner and you post some dodgy images (including an affiliate using free content) then you can clearly be prosecuted, but if you're an affiliate just linking to a site then you don't have ownership, possession or control of the images on that site, so can't be prosecuted.

FHGs are a grey area because the URL of the FHG is usually encoded with your refcode, so the existence of that specific URL is something in your control. The page wouldn't be there if you hadn't brought it into existence, so you've effectively published it. Personally, I avoid linking to FHGs with dubious material for this reason.

[A Priest]

i only ask as im linking to a site owned by a uk sponsor, who is quite promenant on this board, that has a solo girl fisting herself in one of the galleries. I had no idea fisting was dubious, which makes me wonder what else im linking too that could get me in trouble - and i thought i only dealt with 'straight' porn. jesus.

[Paul Markham]

Does anyone know the fucking answer?
Yes.

The jury that tries the case.

The UK obscenity law is, roughly translated, "likely to deprave and corrupt the audience it's intended for." So if you make a site that clearly states "Fisting Teens" then it's intended to be viewed by people who will not get depraved and corrupted by it.

That's it and even your lawyer does not have the definitive answer for you. Unless he's sitting on the jury. LOL

[Guest]

i only ask as im linking to a site owned by a uk sponsor, who is quite promenant on this board, that has a solo girl fisting herself in one of the galleries.

Just don't link to the gallery and you'll be fine. You'll probably be fine anyway even if you do link to the gallery. I guess it depends on your attitude to risk ;)

[MelnAdam]

Have you tried to publish fisting? Have you encountered any judicial resistance of the sort? They may have been attempts, I doubt they were successful.


Yes, and it was turned down by the BBFC for breach of home office guidelines. Here you go, have a look at the end of this article :-

http://www.inquisition21.com/article~view~117~page_num~10.html

Adam

[Guest]

Yes, and it was turned down by the BBFC for breach of home office guidelines. Here you go, have a look at the end of this article :-

http://www.inquisition21.com/article~view~117~page_num~10.html

When was that article written? It's basically the author's response to the original consultation document, which indicates it's quite old.

The proposals in the CJIB are very different to those outlined in the consultation document and don't include several of the categories of material listed on that page.

[MelnAdam]

Not sure, but I'd imagine that it would be early 7, late 6 based on the consultation.

[Willie_Ekkerslike]

Yes, and it was turned down by the BBFC for breach of home office guidelines. Here you go, have a look at the end of this article :-

http://www.inquisition21.com/article~view~117~page_num~10.html

Adam

Is that what 'you' use as a guidline?

You say fisting is illegal and yes it's on that list. Yet you say bondage isn't illegal and it's also on that list!



Edit = Correct Typo's

[MelnAdam]

Is that what 'you' use as a guidline?

You say fisting is illegal and yes it's on that list. Yet you say bondage isn't illegal and it's also on that list!



Edit = Correct Typo's

No, I've just fund that on the net, we go by what the solicitors says, as if shit hits the fan, they'll be the ones sorting it out.

[Guest]

Is that what 'you' use as a guidline?

You say fisting is illegal and yes it's on that list. Yet you say bondage isn't illegal and it's also on that list!

That list is best ignored as things have moved on since then. It's worthless.