View Full Version : Interesting Price Point Change
Got this from OrgyCash:
Dear OrgyCash Webmaster,
We're optimistic 2008 is going to be a profitable and unique year,
characterized by exciting and important changes that should increase
ratios and retention--a reduction in our price point and including 12
bonus sites with all single-site memberships.
We will be reducing our multi-site membership by 25% to 29.95 EUR. Also,
our single site memberships will be discontinued, and all memberships will
include multi-site access for the same 29.95 EUR.
These changes will not effect GuysGoCrazy or BiMaxx.com, which will not be
included in the multi-site package. We have however just added
Tyrannized.com to our multi-site package, which will increase conversions
for this site.
We're optimistic this change will give us substantial gains from single
site re-bills and a dramatic increase in joins. Please update any tours,
campaigns, or reviews with this new price and bonus site join scheme.
Panic move, or clever marketing move?
Got this from OrgyCash:
Panic move, or clever marketing move?
We are constantly experimenting with prices and other options as are most others I expect. It's just business.
Cardinal_Sin
02-08-08, 09:12 AM
Sounds much along the lines we have been talking about here - Giving the customer much more bang for his buck -
I have been re-working my marketing by giving five sites for one price just lately and it is increasing sales -
Example Gallery (http://www.harlotgirl.com/fhg/kelly/071/index.shtml) Also will be opening a site based on this (five4one.com) and will also be basing a cash programme on five4one -
Sitting in front of the television Christmas day with all of the High Street on-line sale adverts and then Boxing day was the biggest UK sales day on-line ever yet on webmaster message boards were full of endless threads about it being dead because its Christmas.
I see McDonalds on the horizon for many… :)
xmas day was ok 4 sales IMO
xmas day was ok 4 sales IMO
So it should be mate. If you cant get them when they are stuck at home away from work with nothing else to do when can you? :)
We are constantly experimenting with prices and other options as are most others I expect. It's just business.
Experimenting is obviously something that needs to be done, but to no longer offer single site access is a bit of a big experiment is it not? Going from 29.95EUR for a single site and 34.95EUR for all-sites access to the single site price but for all-access seems a bit weird to me, though then again obviously you have to look at the bigger picture, and if it increases initial sign-ups because of the added value, and improves retention then that's what really counts I suppose. Either way the next few days should be interesting to see if there's a noticeable increase in s/ups from the 5 clicks a day I send :)
Sounds much along the lines we have been talking about here - Giving the customer much more bang for his buck -
I have been re-working my marketing by giving five sites for one price just lately and it is increasing sales -
Example Gallery (http://www.harlotgirl.com/fhg/kelly/071/index.shtml) Also will be opening a site based on this (five4one.com) and will also be basing a cash programme on five4one -
Out of interest, same price point?
Also just a fyi http://www.kelly-dee.com/ doesn't mention kirsty blue as one of the bonus sites (next to the embedded movie).
My personal view is subscriptions are becoming harder to sell, im contemplating adding single 30 day joins into the mix and sorting some form of VOD and Zip set stores for those who love the content but just want a quick wank and not prepared to pay for a 30 day subscription.
Cardinal_Sin
02-08-08, 09:54 AM
Out of interest, same price point?
Also just a fyi http://www.kelly-dee.com/ doesn't mention kirsty blue as one of the bonus sites (next to the embedded movie).
I know - On the kelly site I show legshow and two of the lesser known sites - At the moment, I am just tweeking around to get the best levels - Kelly's ratios are equal to kirstyblue, so I think it is pretty tight. I still have 2 more sites to change - so it's a lot of playing round! I want to get all these sites optimised before releasing the five4one version -
Edit for price - No - I will increase prices for the five4one - I believe that a higher price gives a potential member more confidence to join.
Experimenting is obviously something that needs to be done, but to no longer offer single site access is a bit of a big experiment is it not? Going from 29.95EUR for a single site and 34.95EUR for all-sites access to the single site price but for all-access seems a bit weird to me, though then again obviously you have to look at the bigger picture, and if it increases initial sign-ups because of the added value, and improves retention then that's what really counts I suppose. Either way the next few days should be interesting to see if there's a noticeable increase in s/ups from the 5 clicks a day I send :)
It will be interesting.
Edit for price - No - I will increase prices for the five4one - I believe that a higher price gives a potential member more confidence to join.
Agreed
I know - On the kelly site I show legshow and two of the lesser known sites - At the moment, I am just tweeking around to get the best levels - Kelly's ratios are equal to kirstyblue, so I think it is pretty tight. I still have 2 more sites to change - so it's a lot of playing round! I want to get all these sites optimised before releasing the five4one version -
Edit for price - No - I will increase prices for the five4one - I believe that a higher price gives a potential member more confidence to join.
Should have known it wasn't an oversight :)
I agree on the slightly increased price for all-access, which is why it seemed a little odd orgycash dropped the all-access by 5 euros tbh. Then again it still works out at about $43 so that's probably why.
Paul Markham
02-08-08, 11:05 AM
I think I mentioned it before but just to repeat myself. The future will be about price.
I plan to offer affiliates different price options for them to sell. So if they want to promote a $2.95 3 day trial or a $5 3 day one off or a $29.95 full join they can.
On the $5 sites there will be sites for $1 to $5 non recurring membership and maybe the ability to add a few sites on sign up so they can buy up to 5 sites at a time. The more they buy the better the deal.
On the retro porn sites we will have 1 major site with everything in it, then either go the $5 site route with all the videos of say Vida Garman in for $5 and up to all the "unshaven pussy amateurs" in for $15.
Then when all that's done we will turn the content store into a porn shop where they can buy the scenes they want.
Traffic. IMHO The future will be decided by members, those willing to spend money. Not the people directing traffic. Sorry if that sounds harsh but look around and see what's happening. So if you offer the paying traffic what it wants to buy and not what you want to sell it you will do better. The days of selling the members what you want are going.
The exceptions will be sites like Lady Sonia, Party Hardcore, Big Sister and not sites with "exclusive" content that is no different from the next site on the list. So you will cut your prices or you will find a unique lady/niche or you will invest proper money into the content.
This of course is total bullshit spouted by a senile old loser.
A friend of mine just put the price up for his site. By 25%. No difference AT ALL in conversion.
Pile high and sell cheap might work for Lidl, but with porn, I think it makes no difference.
Would love to see some *proper* testing done on this. Say 4 different price points on 4 tours and send 25% of your traffic to each one for a month and see what the right price is...
I know when I did this at Playboy, it made no difference at all to conversion. So obviously we stuck with the higher price. The lifetime value of the customer increased massively overnight.
One things for sure. They didn't change cause they were happy with how well they were doing.
Paul Markham
02-08-08, 11:17 AM
A friend of mine just put the price up for his site. By 25%. No difference AT ALL in conversion.
Pile high and sell cheap might work for Lidl, but with porn, I think it makes no difference.
Would love to see some *proper* testing done on this. Say 4 different price points on 4 tours and send 25% of your traffic to each one for a month and see what the right price is...
I know when I did this at Playboy, it made no difference at all to conversion. So obviously we stuck with the higher price. The lifetime value of the customer increased massively overnight.
When I have the 4 options we can try the test.
Of course it will depend on the traffic sent and the site.
What works on Playboy might not work on PMT. In fact I would be shocked if it did. What I do know is some affiliates are making far more sending trial joins, a lot of the joins will never join at $30. Upping the price means you lose those.
Sadly most of us are in the Lidl end of the business, no matter how much we talk it up.
What works on Playboy might not work on PMT. In fact I would be shocked if it did. What I do know is some affiliates are making far more sending trial joins, a lot of the joins will never join at $30. Upping the price means you lose those.
Of course, every site is different, but without doing *proper* split testing, you don't know which is the right price point for YOU.
Sadly most of us are in the Lidl end of the business, no matter how much we talk it up.
I have a corner shop!:character0088:
Paul Markham
02-08-08, 11:28 AM
Of course, every site is different, but without doing *proper* split testing, you don't know which is the right price point for YOU.
Which is why I will be offering different prices for different packages.
Which is why I will be offering different prices for different packages.
Huh?
You need to offer different prices for THE SAME package, in order to test the effective 'sweet spot' of pricing...
Or am I misunderstanding you?
Sexvilly
02-08-08, 11:32 AM
Experimenting is obviously something that needs to be done, but to no longer offer single site access is a bit of a big experiment is it not? Going from 29.95EUR for a single site and 34.95EUR for all-sites access to the single site price but for all-access seems a bit weird to me, though then again obviously you have to look at the bigger picture, and if it increases initial sign-ups because of the added value, and improves retention then that's what really counts I suppose. Either way the next few days should be interesting to see if there's a noticeable increase in s/ups from the 5 clicks a day I send :)
that's suprisingly they hold on this option for so long, while every other and new program offers full pack straight away for past two years...
plus they actually Raised the price, from E24.95 regular for a single site. to E29.95 for that same site and a pack.
Traffic. IMHO The future will be decided by members, those willing to spend money. Not the people directing traffic. Sorry if that sounds harsh but look around and see what's happening. So if you offer the paying traffic what it wants to buy and not what you want to sell it you will do better. The days of selling the members what you want are going.
Eh?
A friend of mine just put the price up for his site. By 25%. No difference AT ALL in conversion.
I see this quite a few times, and have to agree with you 100%. If you want something, you pay for it, and a $5-8 difference in price isn't going to make a dent in sales imo.
One things for sure. They didn't change cause they were happy with how well they were doing.
Agreed there, but then again who is ever happy with how they are doing? We all want more at the end of the day.
that's suprisingly they hold on this option for so long, while every other and new program offers full pack straight away for past two years...
plus they actually Raised the price, from E24.95 regular for a single site. to E29.95 for that same site and a pack.
Ah I was a little bit confucious then, for some reason I thought the single site prices were all at 29.95EUR.
Cardinal_Sin
02-08-08, 12:10 PM
One things for sure. They didn't change cause they were happy with how well they were doing.
I don't entirely agree - Improvement and maximize is an ongoing project - Often mistaken for desperation.
Paul Markham
02-08-08, 12:12 PM
Huh?
You need to offer different prices for THE SAME package, in order to test the effective 'sweet spot' of pricing...
Or am I misunderstanding you?
Would be interesting to see if different traffic will pay more for the same or more traffic will sign up for a lower price. But I was thinking of altering the package in terms of content, quantity and length of stay.
Wouldn't it be nice if all we had to do was raise the price to make more money. Sadly as you go around the Internet you see more sites offering to give more for less and surfers sticking to Tube sites.
Maybe different surfers. I do know that on my site the lower prices got more joins and more importantly more rebills.
Paul Markham
02-08-08, 12:14 PM
There are surfers who want 20 minutes, and surfers who want 20 months. The trick is to sell to both of them.
I see this quite a few times, and have to agree with you 100%. If you want something, you pay for it, and a $5-8 difference in price isn't going to make a dent in sales imo.
Exactly, look at clips4sale *see sig* people will happily spend over $30 for a few clips. I'm sure if they saw a site with 100's of scenes for say $40 they would happily sign up, or maybe they don't want a membership and are just happy to get a few clips when they want.
Now there's an idea, have a "paysite" but don't offer a membership, instead offer them the chance to download any scene they like for $10. Have a 10 - 15 second clip and a screen grab and let them choose which they want. Just like clips4sale but have all full scenes and all $10 plus a sample, clips4sale just have screen grabs, altohugh maybe that works better.
Right I'm off to get the software from clips4sale.
Oh and if this is a shit idea or people are already doing and it doesn't really work then remember... I was just thinking out loud :rolleye0012:
Paul Markham
02-08-08, 12:54 PM
If it works on clips4sale it has to work on other sites. Great logic.
But I already posted I was turning the content store into a porn shop site. I wonder who owns WWW.YOURPORNSHOP.COM ?
If it works on clips4sale it has to work on other sites. great logic.
So cos it works on clips4sale that means it won't work anywhere else, fuck off markham you two bob shit cunt.
Paul Markham
02-08-08, 01:08 PM
So cos it works on clips4sale that means it won't work anywhere else, fuck off markham you two bob shit cunt.
Are you really like this in real life or just at play on the boards?
Clips4sale is mostly very niche stuff, so not a good guide for the rest of us. It is very good for traffic though. Will the traffic from there make more money on a general teens site at $29.95 or at $5? Don't have the definitive answer.
I will be putting up more hairy pussy and retro content in a few weeks.
Are you really like this in real life or just at play on the boards?
You could have found out, I was at the meet and although you posted on here that you wanted to meet me you stayed a long way away...wanker
Clips4sale is mostly very niche stuff, so not a good guide for the rest of us. It is very good for traffic though. Will the traffic from there make more money on a general teens site at $29.95 or at $5? Don't have the definitive answer.
What traffic from there?, I'm not taling about using clips4sale traffic you dicksplash. So you know its a bad idea to do it like that then, when did you try?. If a surfer came to your site and... oh bollocks up your arsehole you fucking idiot.
I will be putting up more hairy pussy and retro content in a few weeks.
so what!
I like the clips4sale model, it works and most importantly the
customers like it and pay for it.
If more sites gave the surfers more price point options, have a clip for $10
or subscription for $30 it would be interesting to see which generated
the most rev.
redwhiteandblue
02-08-08, 01:27 PM
Maybe different surfers. I do know that on my site the lower prices got more joins and more importantly more rebills.
The real question is of course Paul, joins may have gone up but did total revenue go up? I'm sure that's what you meant but just thought I'd point it out.
Paul Markham
02-08-08, 01:28 PM
You could have found out, I was at the meet and although you posted on here that you wanted to meet me you stayed a long way away...wanker
And I thought you were avoiding me. :P
I like the clips4sale model, it works and most importantly the
customers like it and pay for it.
If more sites gave the surfers more price point options, have a clip for $10
or subscription for $30 it would be interesting to see which generated
the most rev.
How many times do we hear that someone just wants a quick wank?, well by offering scenes at $10 a go they could do just that. They see a clip they like, they select it, pay, and begin wanking. Now they like what they got so they bookmark and come back. Like you say it would be good to be able to offer $10 per clip or $35 (or whatever) for a month of full access to all the clips and pics.
This might actually make more money cos they might just wanna test the water, so they spend $10, they like what they see so choose another clip, then they think, "fuck this for a game of soldiers I might as well join for full access" and sign up ;)
And I thought you were avoiding me. :P
I wasn't avoiding you but like I said, why would I want to meet a wanker like you. Hope you didn't spill too much wine :wank2:
How many times do we hear that someone just wants a quick wank?, well by offering scenes at $10 a go they could do just that. They see a clip they like, they select it, pay, and begin wanking. Now they like what they got so they bookmark and come back. Like you say it would be good to be able to offer $10 per clip or $35 (or whatever) for a month of full access to all the clips and pics.
This might actually make more money cos they might just wanna test the water, so they spend $10, they like what they see so choose another clip, then they think, "fuck this for a game of soldiers I might as well join for full access" and sign up ;)
I would suspect by the time they say "fuck this for a game of soldiers"
they have spent $30,$40 or more on clips, so to me it's a win win situation.
Don't take them on tours, give them a page full of vidoes to choose
from from the getgo.
I am a great supporter of micropayments, especially for this type of sale.
Cock in one hand phone in the other, no fucking about with cc's.
I would suspect by the time they say "fuck this for a game of soldiers"
they have spent $30,$40 or more on clips, so to me it's a win win situation.
Don't take them on tours, give them a page full of vidoes to choose
from from the getgo.
I am a great supporter of micropayments, especially for this type of sale.
Cock in one hand phone in the other, no fucking about with cc's.
Ahhh, that just reminded me of that micro processor, I say it reminded me but I'll be fucked if I can remember the name :geezer:
Be nice to be able to set it up in CCBill, maybe you can I dunno?
Paul Markham
02-08-08, 01:55 PM
The real question is of course Paul, joins may have gone up but did total revenue go up? I'm sure that's what you meant but just thought I'd point it out.
Real earnings went up be a third. I was shocked to be honest. I had always thought surfers were wary of trials and by showing them a lot of content you get around the doubters. But it does not happen that way for us.
Some trial joins immediately cancel and CCBILL even have this in their preset reasons to cancel. But many stayed and some have been with us three months so far. I'm thinking it's traffic deciding for itself what it wants and not letting us tell it. Too early to tell if the over all joins will be as valuable as the full joins. But it's traffic we did not convert before so all added value.
Would it work for all sites? No way. Sites like SGS are so unique the surfer who wants them expects to pay. Will it work for a site with 50 scenes? Not to my thinking. We have 410 videos, update with 5 a day, lots of exclusive content, different styles and even different sub niches of the porn niche. A lot of keep the member from canceling. Won't mention the Ipod and porn videos as that becomes spammy. :noway2:
Ahhh, that just reminded me of that micro processor, I say it reminded me but I'll be fucked if I can remember the name :geezer:
Be nice to be able to set it up in CCBill, maybe you can I dunno?
I have the micro payment solution and the content just need some
one to build the site, remember!!!!!!!
Ahhh, that just reminded me of that micro processor, I say it reminded me but I'll be fucked if I can remember the name :geezer:
Be nice to be able to set it up in CCBill, maybe you can I dunno?
http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16178
How many times do we hear that someone just wants a quick wank?, well by offering scenes at $10 a go they could do just that. They see a clip they like, they select it, pay, and begin wanking. Now they like what they got so they bookmark and come back. Like you say it would be good to be able to offer $10 per clip or $35 (or whatever) for a month of full access to all the clips and pics.
This might actually make more money cos they might just wanna test the water, so they spend $10, they like what they see so choose another clip, then they think, "fuck this for a game of soldiers I might as well join for full access" and sign up ;)
We've just added something like this here http://www.nickilewis.com/video-on-demand.html it's a bit soon to predict how well it will do and aren't getting much traffic to it at the moment. Was easy enough to set up with Epoch and we aren't 100% sure we have our pricing spot on yet. Southern Charms do the same with their girls and price at a dollar per minute of video but we couldn't charge $40 for a 40 minute video when someone could join the site and download most of these for $29.99
Anyway it's another option and the more options we have the better.
Paul Markham
02-08-08, 02:54 PM
We've just added something like this here http://www.nickilewis.com/video-on-demand.html it's a bit soon to predict how well it will do and aren't getting much traffic to it at the moment. Was easy enough to set up with Epoch and we aren't 100% sure we have our pricing spot on yet. Southern Charms do the same with their girls and price at a dollar per minute of video but we couldn't charge $40 for a 40 minute video when someone could join the site and download most of these for $29.99
Anyway it's another option and the more options we have the better.
Excellent idea.
Not sure of the pricing but testing will do the trick.
Has anybody asked the surfer "How much do you want to spend?"
Have a page the asks the question;
How much do you want to spend?
£5 gives you access to videos with a running time of upto 10 mins
£10 gives you acees to videos with a running time of upto 20 mins
£15 gives you full acess to all videos.
Let them choose their price point and direct them accordingly, lead them
through the process.
I don't mean have this page after a tour I mean have this page as
a landing page, right at the start of the site.
Has anybody asked the surfer "How much do you want to spend?"
Have a page the asks the question;
How much do you want to spend?
A bit more sophisticated than that but yes I would imagine most do constantly.
Paul Markham
02-08-08, 03:04 PM
Has anybody asked the surfer "How much do you want to spend?"
Have a page the asks the question;
How much do you want to spend?
£5 gives you access to videos with a running time of upto 10 mins
£10 gives you acees to videos with a running time of upto 20 mins
£15 gives you full acess to all videos.
Let them choose their price point and direct them accordingly, lead them
through the process.
I don't mean have this page after a tour I mean have this page as
a landing page, right at the start of the site.
Good point. Sadly this part of the porn industry is very bad at asking what the consumer wants. We ask each other what we want, just not the guy who pays the money.
A bit more sophisticated than that but yes I would imagine most do constantly.
Why be sophisticated about it?
Obviously I wouldn't expect quality sites like yours to do it but if
you are offering quick cheap wank solution to the surfers make it easy for
them, take away one part of the purchasing thought process.
Take the £1 shops "everything a £1" in big fuck off letters outside the shop.
People go in who may not want to buy anything, but they end up paying out
£10+. I'll just have that and that etc. They are sold too.
Shit thats my shopping habits revealed.:noway2:
Why be sophisticated about it?
It's more effective. Nothing tells you whats working better than numbers and sometimes when you ask the public questions the wrong people answer.
How many times have you heard conversions on a site improving when the price is put up? A customer is never going to tell you that but numbers don't lie.
It's more effective. Nothing tells you whats working better than numbers and sometimes when you ask the public questions the wrong people answer.
How many times have you heard conversions on a site improving when the price is put up? A customer is never going to tell you that but numbers don't lie.
I agree numbers speak volumes in sales.
Whilst it is a good thing to have a sophisticated system to monitor
conversions to subscriptions and the linked marketing strategy,
I am talking about stripping away a layer of the sales process by asking
the surfer what they want to spend before they star, instead of letting
drift through a tour.
Now granted I doubt the process will work with such and established
quality site like yours but for other sites it would be ideal.
This system can be also be monitored and then changed.
Has anybody asked the surfer "How much do you want to spend?"
Have a page the asks the question;
How much do you want to spend?
£5 gives you access to videos with a running time of upto 10 mins
£10 gives you acees to videos with a running time of upto 20 mins
£15 gives you full acess to all videos.
Let them choose their price point and direct them accordingly, lead them
through the process.
I don't mean have this page after a tour I mean have this page as
a landing page, right at the start of the site.
Rather than ask, surely you 'tell'?
ie same difference but without the question, which is what I was told way back when is the key. Not 'do you want to spend 5/10/15' but just '£5 gives you access etc...'
Same spiel, presented differently so they dont have the option of saying 'well, I want to spend zero'.
Whether that's right or wrong I'm obviously not 100% sure of, but it makes sense to me.
Paul Markham
02-09-08, 07:49 AM
We need to stop thinking along the lines of "One way to skin a cat."
Look around you ate most of commodities and you see ranges of services, qualities and value in most industries.
Do you want a car like a Ford or a Ferrari?
Groceries from the corner shop or Fortnum and Masons?
A Picasso or a picture of the Hawaiian girl on your wall?
Why do we even think all surfers want the same solution?
It needs different sites, packages, solutions and customers to cover all markets. we need to take our blinkers off and start looking sideways.
We also need to educate the surfers, some of them think a site with 410 videos is poor value for $30 for 30 days. WTF do they want for the price?
Cardinal_Sin
02-09-08, 08:11 AM
We also need to educate the surfers, some of them think a site with 410 videos is poor value for $30 for 30 days. WTF do they want for the price?
Maybe if they hadn't seen those videos on most of the other teen sites, they would be thinking this was good value for money...
Exactly, look at clips4sale *see sig* people will happily spend over $30 for a few clips. I'm sure if they saw a site with 100's of scenes for say $40 they would happily sign up, or maybe they don't want a membership and are just happy to get a few clips when they want.
Now there's an idea, have a "paysite" but don't offer a membership, instead offer them the chance to download any scene they like for $10. Have a 10 - 15 second clip and a screen grab and let them choose which they want. Just like clips4sale but have all full scenes and all $10 plus a sample, clips4sale just have screen grabs, altohugh maybe that works better.
Right I'm off to get the software from clips4sale.
Oh and if this is a shit idea or people are already doing and it doesn't really work then remember... I was just thinking out loud :rolleye0012:
That's a nice idea. If it works for clips4sale, and I suppose similarly for eg Jerry, no reason why it shouldn't work.
I like the clips4sale model, it works and most importantly the
customers like it and pay for it.
If more sites gave the surfers more price point options, have a clip for $10
or subscription for $30 it would be interesting to see which generated
the most rev.
Yeah was just thinking that after reading Geezer's post, but maybe $5 per scene, but a link to the paysite 'proper' saying or you can join here and get everything for $40. Set up a new custom ccbill form on the scenes-for-sale domain with the higher price point, and use that surfer(s) to make a little extra than you would by having him on the default tour. Only problem is if they see the tour at any point they'll probably cop the hump at the extra price, and do a CB or several. So scrap that, and just do what you said. Good job no trees were cut down for this post innit :geezer:
Good point. Sadly this part of the porn industry is very bad at asking what the consumer wants. We ask each other what we want, just not the guy who pays the money.
Asking the customer what he wants, and what he wants to pay, are 2 vastly different questions.
Yeah was just thinking that after reading Geezer's post, but maybe $5 per scene, but a link to the paysite 'proper' saying or you can join here and get everything for $40. Set up a new custom ccbill form on the scenes-for-sale domain with the higher price point, and use that surfer(s) to make a little extra than you would by having him on the default tour. Only problem is if they see the tour at any point they'll probably cop the hump at the extra price, and do a CB or several. So scrap that, and just do what you said. Good job no trees were cut down for this post innit :geezer:
If you had totally seperate site, as you say, and on the $40 option
you sent the surfers to the paysite why can't you just get rid of the
tour? After all the surfers will know what they are getting by paying
the $40.
Cardinal_Sin
02-09-08, 12:53 PM
If you had totally seperate site, as you say, and on the $40 option
you sent the surfers to the paysite why can't you just get rid of the
tour? After all the surfers will know what they are getting by paying
the $40.
This is done very often - I have many links direct to the join form - if you sell the site well enough, you can cut out the tour.
Yeah was just thinking that after reading Geezer's post, but maybe $5 per scene
See again, lets give the surfer stuff for less...fuck em, if they want it they will pay. I am just about to have a nice fry up and then I am going to up the price on one of my sites to $40, I might change back tomorrow though :)
Paul Markham
02-09-08, 02:41 PM
Asking the customer what he wants, and what he wants to pay, are 2 vastly different questions.
So ask both of them.
We endlessly ask each other what do you want, how much do you want and where do you want it. We should talk more with the customers. I see some posts on a review site forum where the members are complaining about a site not being good value when it has 300 videos in. Compare that with a DVD for $30 with 5 scenes. Does not compare. we need to talk to surfers and members.
So ask both of them.
We endlessly ask each other what do you want, how much do you want and where do you want it. We should talk more with the customers. I see some posts on a review site forum where the members are complaining about a site not being good value when it has 300 videos in. Compare that with a DVD for $30 with 5 scenes. Does not compare. we need to talk to surfers and members.
Because they have been pandered to too much. Like I have been saying for the last 25 years, they will ask for more and more and more. All the time they are given they will want more again. Give em an inch and they'll take a mile.
Don't let the customer dictate to you simple as that, you tell them.
Do you think if you asked a customer if they wanted to pay less and get more they would say "no thanks" ?
or if you asked "do you want 100 movies or 1,000", do you think they would say "100 will do, I don't want more" will they bollocks. They will always want more for less.
When punters buy a DVD they pay their money and are gone, they watch, wank and thats that. We offer a membership and they have the ability to contact us and moan about whatever they think is not good enough. I doubt many, if any, would actually contact the distributers or producers of a DVD to complain that they only had 5 scenes.
Again if you asked a customer who is buying a DVD "do you want this one with 5 scenes or do you want this one with 10 scenes for the same price", what do you think he would go for?. Before you spout some old bollocks about if its what he wants, lets say its the exact film but just has more scenes, the "uncut version".
One site might not offer as much as another but that does not mean that it is not value for money. Don't let the customers run the sites cos they will always want more.
Rather than ask, surely you 'tell'?
ie same difference but without the question, which is what I was told way back when is the key. Not 'do you want to spend 5/10/15' but just '£5 gives you access etc...'
Same spiel, presented differently so they dont have the option of saying 'well, I want to spend zero'.
Whether that's right or wrong I'm obviously not 100% sure of, but it makes sense to me.
Yea, your'e right there Jel, just tell them what thay can have.
Keep the prices comparable to clips4sale cause if you sell vids
on clips4sale you can link through to your main site with far more
vids on offer to the surfers, so hopefully you get traffic via clips4sale
and direct to your site.
You should have multiple payment options on the sites as well,CC, SMS,
and PRS. Make it easy for them, shall I pay by mobile or use my landline?
I see some posts on a review site forum where the members are complaining about a site not being good value when it has 300 videos in. Compare that with a DVD for $30 with 5 scenes. Does not compare. we need to talk to surfers and members.
Exactly, and you'll always get people moaning about how it's not enough, it's too dear, etc. Which is why basically I believe that you should give them enough to do what they came there for in the first place, ie wank. As someone said earlier (might have been a different thread) - always leave the customer wanting a little bit more. It's very rare for anyone to be truly 100% satisfied about a product, there is always the 'could have been more', 'could have been cheaper' mindset, whether it's porn, a meal at a restaurant, a week in a hotel, or whatever.
Because they have been pandered to too much. Like I have been saying for the last 25 years, they will ask for more and more and more. All the time they are given they will want more again. Give em an inch and they'll take a mile.
Don't let the customer dictate to you simple as that, you tell them.
Do you think if you asked a customer if they wanted to pay less and get more they would say "no thanks" ?
or if you asked "do you want 100 movies or 1,000", do you think they would say "100 will do, I don't want more" will they bollocks. They will always want more for less.
When punters buy a DVD they pay their money and are gone, they watch, wank and thats that. We offer a membership and they have the ability to contact us and moan about whatever they think is not good enough. I doubt many, if any, would actually contact the distributers or producers of a DVD to complain that they only had 5 scenes.
Again if you asked a customer who is buying a DVD "do you want this one with 5 scenes or do you want this one with 10 scenes for the same price", what do you think he would go for?. Before you spout some old bollocks about if its what he wants, lets say its the exact film but just has more scenes, the "uncut version".
One site might not offer as much as another but that does not mean that it is not value for money. Don't let the customers run the sites cos they will always want more.
I make you right.
Yea, your'e right there Jel, just tell them what thay can have.
Keep the prices comparable to clips4sale cause if you sell vids
on clips4sale you can link through to your main site with far more
vids on offer to the surfers, so hopefully you get traffic via clips4sale
and direct to your site.
You should have multiple payment options on the sites as well,CC, SMS,
and PRS. Make it easy for them, shall I pay by mobile or use my landline?
Yeah the more I think about it, the better my idea of selling standalone scenes sounds ;) I used a microprocessor a few years back for something that didn't really take off, you could sell individual images as well as scenes and obviously set your own price, I'll have to have a dig about and see if I can find them again.
It was payasyouclick.com which appears to be down, whether it's dropped altogether as a processor I don't know, but google brought up this thread: http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-169.html
Yeah the more I think about it, the better my idea of selling standalone scenes sounds ;) I used a microprocessor a few years back for something that didn't really take off, you could sell individual images as well as scenes and obviously set your own price, I'll have to have a dig about and see if I can find them again.
Sounds like the one I have been thinking of, I had them on a page and when I looked there is nothing there so maybe they are long gone.
If you could get a decent processor and you could get it to really take off it would be a lot lesss hassle than a paysite...maybe :)
OK you posted the above as I was finishing :)
Yeah the more I think about it, the better my idea of selling standalone scenes sounds ;) I used a microprocessor a few years back for something that didn't really take off, you could sell individual images as well as scenes and obviously set your own price, I'll have to have a dig about and see if I can find them again.
What about this Jel
http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum...ad.php?t=16178
What about this Jel
http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum...ad.php?t=16178
Very interesting:
" The page cannot be found
The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please try the following:
If you typed the page address in the Address bar, make sure that it is spelled correctly.
Open the www.beerandbollocks.com home page, and then look for links to the information you want.
Click the Back button to try another link.
Click Search to look for information on the Internet.
HTTP 404 - File not found
Internet Explorer"
Paul Markham
02-10-08, 12:46 PM
Exactly, and you'll always get people moaning about how it's not enough, it's too dear, etc. Which is why basically I believe that you should give them enough to do what they came there for in the first place, ie wank. As someone said earlier (might have been a different thread) - always leave the customer wanting a little bit more. It's very rare for anyone to be truly 100% satisfied about a product, there is always the 'could have been more', 'could have been cheaper' mindset, whether it's porn, a meal at a restaurant, a week in a hotel, or whatever.
Agreed. What ever you offer a lot will want it for less or more for their money. Human nature. I just feel we are no longer in a market where the surfer who wants 30 minutes can't get it for very little or free.
*prices as example*
Leave the present $30 for 30 days model as it is.
Charge $20 for 10 days, depending on the size of the site.
$15 for 5 days
$5 for 2 days.
Throttle BW so they don't suck it down.
Then have sites like Strictly Broadband selling a scene a time and clips4sale.
Have different sites adopting different price models so affiliates can send their traffic to the sites that fit their business model best. If you truly think your traffic will spend $40 for a particular site have a tour that offers a $40 a month membership.
Flexibility and not all adopting one of a handful of options.
Today largely we offer 30 days, trials or PPV/VOD or free on Tube sites. How many Tube surfers will pay $1 for 2 hours or 2 scenes but don't because we don't offer it? Now tell me about the sites who don't do the above. Videobox comes to mind.
Agreed. What ever you offer a lot will want it for less or more for their money. Human nature. I just feel we are no longer in a market where the surfer who wants 30 minutes can't get it for very little or free.
*prices as example*
Leave the present $30 for 30 days model as it is.
Charge $20 for 10 days, depending on the size of the site.
$15 for 5 days
$5 for 2 days.
Throttle BW so they don't suck it down.
Then have sites like Strictly Broadband selling a scene a time and clips4sale.
Have different sites adopting different price models so affiliates can send their traffic to the sites that fit their business model best. If you truly think your traffic will spend $40 for a particular site have a tour that offers a $40 a month membership.
Flexibility and not all adopting one of a handful of options.
Today largely we offer 30 days, trials or PPV/VOD or free on Tube sites. How many Tube surfers will pay $1 for 2 hours or 2 scenes but don't because we don't offer it? Now tell me about the sites who don't do the above. Videobox comes to mind.
Why involve affiliates?
Just set up seperate sites and reap the benefits. Better to spend time and effort generating business for your self than help the affiliates.
So who is going to try the system out then?
A stand alone site with vids priced at £5 and £10 per scene
and the option of full access to all vids for £20.
With payment options inc CCbill SMS and PRS.
I have some content and the SMS PRS payment if someone is up for
JV test site?
Got url we can use easyxxx.co.uk
I can't build sites and don't know how to get traffic.
Paul Markham
02-10-08, 07:10 PM
Why involve affiliates?
Just set up seperate sites and reap the benefits. Better to spend time and effort generating business for your self than help the affiliates.
Why not?
Just make sure you dictate the business model and the tools.
They accept the business as they feel it will fit their traffic.
Maybe open a Tube site, throw lots of traffic at it and make the advertising pay for the traffic and site, the profit is in the upsells to your own site at $1 a video or what ever.
It's already working for some.
Why not?
Just make sure you dictate the business model and the tools.
They accept the business as they feel it will fit their traffic.
Maybe open a Tube site, throw lots of traffic at it and make the advertising pay for the traffic and site, the profit is in the upsells to your own site at $1 a video or what ever.
It's already working for some.
Tube script for ya
http://www.bigdotmedia.com/
What about this Jel
http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum...ad.php?t=16178
I take it you meant http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16178
Will have a proper read in a bit, bit early yet to have a look.
...How many Tube surfers will pay $1 for 2 hours or 2 scenes but don't because we don't offer it?
Not many I reckon. It's not the price, it's the very fact that they just don't want to pay.
Paul Markham
02-11-08, 12:18 PM
Not many I reckon. It's not the price, it's the very fact that they just don't want to pay.
Then you're sunk because if that's the case Tube sites will take over and it seems they are not going bankrupt as so many keep predicting.
Isn't it ironic that people who don't want to pay for content are complaining about others who don't want to pay for content. :P
Then you're sunk because if that's the case Tube sites will take over and it seems they are not going bankrupt as so many keep predicting.
Isn't it ironic that people who don't want to pay for content are complaining about others who don't want to pay for content. :P
Tube sites offering clips are going to take over? I'm much more pissed off/concerned (if that's the right word) about the likes of rapidshare. You have a bee in your bonnet about tube sites it seems, cos you mention them in just about every post you make lately.
I take it part 2 of your post is a dig at people who don't want to buy your content? Don't really understand what you are saying there.
Paul Markham
02-11-08, 12:36 PM
Tube sites offering clips are going to take over? I'm much more pissed off/concerned (if that's the right word) about the likes of rapidshare. You have a bee in your bonnet about tube sites it seems, cos you mention them in just about every post you make lately.
I take it part 2 of your post is a dig at people who don't want to buy your content? Don't really understand what you are saying there.
No I'm having a dig at people who think closing Tube sites is an option and will solve the problem Tube sites have created.
And affiliates who want free everything and complaining about surfers who want free everything. That's why I said it was ironic.
People who don't buy my content buy other peoples or pay for shooting it themselves.
THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING
(they said this when TGPs came out, when P2P kicked off, when people realised what Usenet was, when torrents came out, when rapidshare started, etc etc)
Cardinal_Sin
02-11-08, 12:42 PM
Then you're sunk because if that's the case Tube sites will take over and it seems they are not going bankrupt as so many keep predicting.
Isn't it ironic that people who don't want to pay for content are complaining about others who don't want to pay for content. :P
What do you really know about tube sites?
I ran one for about a year - And with 100% completely honest intentions - In other words, I did not allow any content which was slightly dodgy.
The site started to take over my life - Traffic grew - server move to cope with increased bandwidth - Shit loads of hassle with stolen content (I assume large sites simply bin complaints).
I did make a few extra dollars with avn/aebn etc - but never enough to cover server costs, let alone my time - I didn't see an increase in my sales -
Sooner or later, tube sites will be fucked - If these sites are to be 100% legal, then policing them outweighs the profitability value
Paul Markham
02-11-08, 12:49 PM
What do you really know about tube sites?
I ran one for about a year - And with 100% completely honest intentions - In other words, I did not allow any content which was slightly dodgy.
The site started to take over my life - Traffic grew - server move to cope with increased bandwidth - Shit loads of hassle with stolen content (I assume large sites simply bin complaints).
I did make a few extra dollars with avn/aebn etc - but never enough to cover server costs, let alone my time - I didn't see an increase in my sales -
Sooner or later, tube sites will be fucked - If these sites are to be 100% legal, then policing them outweighs the profitability value
All this proves is you can't run a Tube site. Proof Tube sites work is all around.
Whoops I forgot it's huge marketing plan to take over the Adult Internet. LOL
Damian have you ever thought for some the sky is falling?
And for others it's getting sunnier.
Damian have you ever thought for some the sky is falling?
Not because tube sites exist, no.
Cardinal_Sin
02-11-08, 12:57 PM
All this proves is you can't run a Tube site....
Maybe you are right -
But I am fucking ultra shit hot on facts and statistics. - The only % rise was in the costs - However, had I let it run, forgot the policing, just worked on traffic, I am sure it would have worked out differently - Just didn't fancy the legal hassles -
All this proves is you can't run a Tube site. Proof Tube sites work is all around.
Where?
No I'm having a dig at people who think closing Tube sites is an option and will solve the problem Tube sites have created.
That really makes no sense. Really.
All this proves is you can't run a Tube site. Proof Tube sites work is all around.
.
Mr contradiction the guy who complained and banned an affiliate sending traffic from a tube site and claimed it was "crap".
Make your mind up. Is tube traffic utterly crap as you claimed then, or do tube sites work? You do know you can't have it both ways?
Paul Markham
02-11-08, 10:09 PM
Mr contradiction the guy who complained and banned an affiliate sending traffic from a tube site and claimed it was "crap".
Make your mind up. Is tube traffic utterly crap as you claimed then, or do tube sites work? You do know you can't have it both ways?
Rebel go take a look back and see where you're wrong. Then come back and say sorry.
Jel, think about it. If you do manage to close Tube sites, which is about as likely as West Ham winning the European Cup, the problem for affiliates will still exist. Fewer surfers on sites they can submit to like they could with TGPs type sites and a surfer less willing to pay $30 for a recurring membership.
Tube sites are approaching sponsors for content that's legal. What ever reason Xtube gave it's another site coming away from the model of allowing anyone to upload content. some are offering to buy, others are going into partnership with sponsors.
So I was having a dig at those who think closing Tube sites will happen and will think it can make a difference.
I'm testing DVD level content so Tube sites can't offer it, some members will like it and stay longer, some surfers will become members to get it and it's another reason to spend money on porn. I think adding it to ipod videos and mobile phone videos is a positive move forward.
But it's an idea from me so I don't expect anyone here to agree.
Jel, think about it. If you do manage to close Tube sites, which is about as likely as West Ham winning the European Cup, the problem for affiliates will still exist. Fewer surfers on sites they can submit to like they could with TGPs type sites and a surfer less willing to pay $30 for a recurring membership.
I dont see the fuss about tube sites, but anyway; if the tube sites close, how does that make less surfers available on sites affiliates can submit to? And why does that also lead to less surfers willing to pay for porn?
Tube sites are approaching sponsors for content that's legal. What ever reason Xtube gave it's another site coming away from the model of allowing anyone to upload content. some are offering to buy, others are going into partnership with sponsors.
So what? The monetization (mostly) comes from cams/dating, not everyone wants that.
So I was having a dig at those who think closing Tube sites will happen and will think it can make a difference. I'm testing DVD level content so Tube sites can't offer it, some members will like it and stay longer, some surfers will become members to get it and it's another reason to spend money on porn. I think adding it to ipod videos and mobile phone videos is a positive move forward.
But it's an idea from me so I don't expect anyone here to agree.
If you think the closure of tube sites makes no difference, why are you concerned about making 'dvd quality' scenes so that tube sites can't compete?
Paul Markham
02-12-08, 06:49 AM
I dont see the fuss about tube sites, but anyway; if the tube sites close, how does that make less surfers available on sites affiliates can submit to? And why does that also lead to less surfers willing to pay for porn?
So what? The monetization (mostly) comes from cams/dating, not everyone wants that.
If you think the closure of tube sites makes no difference, why are you concerned about making 'dvd quality' scenes so that tube sites can't compete?
If you can't see it then it's you that's at fault. But just to give you a clue.
They have the traffic going to them, no need to close down or start an affiliate program. They will clean out their pirated content, the only tool to close them. They will start charging the minimum price to get a sign up and stay in business.
This will still keep traffic off sites charging what they need to today. Dating/cam sites will be an upsell as well.
Did you follow that?
Why am I doing DVD? Go figure it out for yourself.
So when you say 'if tube sites close down', you mean 'if tube sites stay alive'?
They will start charging the minimum price to get a sign up and stay in business.
This will still keep traffic off sites charging what they need to today.
btw, assuming it's all legal content, that's called the free market. Not all tube sites have stolen content, and haven't from their initial set up. That's not a case of 'tube sites are thieves', but a case of 'thieves are thieves'. Whatever platform they use to deliver stolen/copyrighted material, it's the thieves, not the fact they are using a tube script, that's the problem.
What do you really know about tube sites?
I ran one for about a year - And with 100% completely honest intentions - In other words, I did not allow any content which was slightly dodgy.
The site started to take over my life - Traffic grew - server move to cope with increased bandwidth - Shit loads of hassle with stolen content (I assume large sites simply bin complaints).
I did make a few extra dollars with avn/aebn etc - but never enough to cover server costs, let alone my time - I didn't see an increase in my sales -
Sooner or later, tube sites will be fucked - If these sites are to be 100% legal, then policing them outweighs the profitability value
Funny enough I spoke to someone yesterday running a tube site the same way as you did, 100% legit, approved uploaders only, and he came to much the same conclusion. He no longer has a tube site, as it was more profitable to concentrate on aother areas.
After a discussion this morning, I've come to the conclusion Paul thinks a tube site is any site with free content, hence his fucked up statements/arguments regarding them closing down but staying open but charging the surfers that refuse to pay for porn in the house that Jack built.
Paul Markham
02-14-08, 12:12 PM
Any Tube site that needs legal content hit me up on ICQ, I have over 1000 clips I can give you.
All I ask is you leave the watermark in the clip. Of course if you want to promote us as well that's even better.
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