View Full Version : People With "Day Jobs"
I often think about this and was talking to someone the other night about it.
Many of us do this full time and have done for many years, I learnt everything myself and I would say I did my "Apprenticeship". It sort of bugs me a bit when you get all these people who do this as a hobby or just part time and I have often wondered this:
Lets say you are painter and decorator and you did your apprenticeship and spent many years learning your trade. How would you feel if I came into your area and set up doing the same as you but I am going to do it for next to nothing. Also I will not do it full time but just when I feel like it. Then another 100 people all do the same, so now in your area we are all doing what you do but we will flood the market and do it really really cheap and there is enough of us to make sure all the work gets covered, so now not many people want to pay you any more. How would you feel ifwe ring you up and ask for some of advice, like where we can get more work or how to best do a certain thing. OK, someone wants gold leaf but I have never done it, I ring you and ask you how to do it. Would you gladly help me out, would you tell me how to do it and also let me know how I can get more work or would you simpy say FUCK OFF! ?
newbies are enthusiastic, buy hosting, content, design, scripts, send traffic.....etc etc.
Newbies are great.
TBH I couldnt give a fuck about newbies but I really want to help the UK industry, newbies and all. The stronger the UK industry is, in the long term its better for all of us.....Lots of us (including you) think the same.... We need to pull the quality up and the industry as a whole over here, before its no more
redwhiteandblue
12-11-07, 08:54 PM
I need my eyes tested, I thought this said "People with Gay Jobs", I thought this'll be thread of the month.
I often think about this and was talking to someone the other night about it.
Many of us do this full time and have done for many years, I learnt everything myself and I would say I did my "Apprenticeship". It sort of bugs me a bit when you get all these people who do this as a hobby or just part time and I have often wondered this:
Lets say you are painter and decorator and you did your apprenticeship and spent many years learning your trade. How would you feel if I came into your area and set up doing the same as you but I am going to do it for next to nothing. Also I will not do it full time but just when I feel like it. Then another 100 people all do the same, so now in your area we are all doing what you do but we will flood the market and do it really really cheap and there is enough of us to make sure all the work gets covered, so now not many people want to pay you any more. How would you feel ifwe ring you up and ask for some of advice, like where we can get more work or how to best do a certain thing. OK, someone wants gold leaf but I have never done it, I ring you and ask you how to do it. Would you gladly help me out, would you tell me how to do it and also let me know how I can get more work or would you simpy say FUCK OFF! ?
You mean like all the fireman/cabbies/people on the dole who work on the side as electricians with no training or insurance or certification.
Or people who do their own electrics in their kitchen without the appropriate planning consent, inspection and testing certs and so on.
I spend about £1500 quid a year just to be able to go to work, and I've still got all these people to contend with, but, quality will normally win through.
if you're good at what you do, what other people do doesn't matter that much. I'm assuming you're pretty good at what you do ;)
smoothballs
12-11-07, 09:00 PM
I often think about this and was talking to someone the other night about it.
Many of us do this full time and have done for many years, I learnt everything myself and I would say I did my "Apprenticeship". It sort of bugs me a bit when you get all these people who do this as a hobby or just part time and I have often wondered this:
Lets say you are painter and decorator and you did your apprenticeship and spent many years learning your trade. How would you feel if I came into your area and set up doing the same as you but I am going to do it for next to nothing. Also I will not do it full time but just when I feel like it. Then another 100 people all do the same, so now in your area we are all doing what you do but we will flood the market and do it really really cheap and there is enough of us to make sure all the work gets covered, so now not many people want to pay you any more. How would you feel ifwe ring you up and ask for some of advice, like where we can get more work or how to best do a certain thing. OK, someone wants gold leaf but I have never done it, I ring you and ask you how to do it. Would you gladly help me out, would you tell me how to do it and also let me know how I can get more work or would you simpy say FUCK OFF! ?
guess thats a dig at me as I'm the one mentioning "day job" a lot!
You run your own sites, and if I'm correct your trade before porn online was a photographer? So you had a skill already to marry with the net porn growth :) I am not a newbie, like i said dabbled over the years and was a bit unsure if i could make this a living with what I knew, limited as it was! All I'm asking is the basic point of direction, the rest I will discover myself if it works for me or not, but no way am I asking to give away your own unique way of doing things if its a success for you! :)
porngirlsxrated
12-11-07, 09:07 PM
Many of us do this full time and have done for many years, I learnt everything myself and I would say I did my "Apprenticeship". It sort of bugs me a bit when you get all these people who do this as a hobby or just part time and I have often wondered this:
Why would a professional fear an amateur?
Isnt it (in a way) a bit like gordon ramsey, when he does his kitchen nightmares? I mean he has a resteraunt, yet he still goes and shows others how to make a sucsess of thiers... OK, hes not going to be affected by a curry house in the midlands, as his resteraunt is different and in london...
But yeah, i get what you mean.. But at the same time... I dont really think it matters all that much...
Isnt it (in a way) a bit like gordon ramsey, when he does his kitchen nightmares? I mean he has a resteraunt, yet he still goes and shows others how to make a sucsess of thiers... OK, hes not going to be affected by a curry house in the midlands, as his resteraunt is different and in london...
But yeah, i get what you mean.. But at the same time... I dont really think it matters all that much...
Plus Gordon Ramsey says fuck alot and so does Geezer
Plus Gordon Ramsey says fuck alot and so does Geezer
Yeah LOL...
I think I can read between the lines enough to know where Geezers coming from though :)
You mean like all the fireman/cabbies/people on the dole who work on the side as electricians with no training or insurance or certification.
Or people who do their own electrics in their kitchen without the appropriate planning consent, inspection and testing certs and so on.
I spend about £1500 quid a year just to be able to go to work, and I've still got all these people to contend with, but, quality will normally win through.
if you're good at what you do, what other people do doesn't matter that much. I'm assuming you're pretty good at what you do ;)
So do you want to answer my question or you just going to get all out of your pram?
So if I set up as an electrician in your area, would you help me to get more work, would you show me how to or explain to me how to run some pyro, would you tell me the best way to do something so I could make even more money as an electrician?
I will only do it part time so there will still be enough work for you and even if a load of other blokes all set up as electricians you will still get work cos you will be doing it better than us, plus like I said we will all being doing it more as a hobby and to make some extra beer money. So is it ok to give you a bell and get some free advice about getting more customers and how to do stuff?
So do you want to answer my question or you just going to get all out of your pram?
So if I set up as an electrician in your area, would you help me to get more work, would you show me how to or explain to me how to run some pyro, would you tell me the best way to do something so I could make even more money as an electrician?
I will only do it part time so there will still be enough work for you and even if a load of other blokes all set up as electricians you will still get work cos you will be doing it better than us, plus like I said we will all being doing it more as a hobby and to make some extra beer money. So is it ok to give you a bell and get some free advice about getting more customers and how to do stuff?
I'm not in the least getting out of my pram :noway2:
In answer to your question, yes if I like you.
guess thats a dig at me as I'm the one mentioning "day job" a lot!
Its not a dig at you or any one personally, but if the cap fits and all that.
I am asking this because surely its crazy for us to do what we do, helping hobbyists and part timers to make more money by showing them the best ways to do things. How many other "prefessions" would do it?
We are also helping to oversaturate the market even... actually its far too late for that now so I won't bother to say it.
I'm not in the least getting out of my pram :noway2:
In answer to your question, yes if I like you.
Ok, but having a pop at me cos I work on my electricity sounds a bit like out of pram time
smoothballs
12-11-07, 10:25 PM
Its not a dig at you or any one personally, but if the cap fits and all that.
I am asking this because surely its crazy for us to do what we do, helping hobbyists and part timers to make more money by showing them the best ways to do things. How many other "prefessions" would do it?
We are also helping to oversaturate the market even... actually its far too late for that now so I won't bother to say it.
ok mate :) to be honest is was oversaturated even when I started,guess that why I did become a bit disilluisonied with it....but after doing things properly then I knew back then and started earning more from online then I've had done before, made me think, well hang on a minute, get this right it could be a regular job! But yeah I kinda see where your coming from, you built up your business, why should you give away the whole basis of what you did to get where you are? Like I said before, just looking for the general pointers and the rest I will learn as I go :)
Ok, but having a pop at me cos I work on my electricity sounds a bit like out of pram time
Wasn't aware you worked on your electricity, merely came up with an example :innocent0001:
I understand your point entirely, but it's up to you whether or not you help someone, and the reason I keep out of some threads, and the reason I've already stated to a couple of people that I won't come along in January, is the fact that I have a "day job", and would feel out of place.
There is a heirachy on here, and I'm aware of my place within it. I'm grateful for any advice I can pick up, but i'm not about to start demanding it.
ok mate :) to be honest is was oversaturated even when I started,guess that why I did become a bit disilluisonied with it....but after doing things properly then I knew back then and started earning more from online then I've had done before, made me think, well hang on a minute, get this right it could be a regular job! But yeah I kinda see where your coming from, you built up your business, why should you give away the whole basis of what you did to get where you are? Like I said before, just looking for the general pointers and the rest I will learn as I go :)
Thats not really where i was coming from, it wasn't a dig at any one person it was just that I was talking to someone the other night about this and we thought it was funny that we are willing to help so many people. We were just saying "imagine doing..." (the scenario above)
Many many moons ago it was seen as a wise move to help "newbies" because one day they might become a whale, and even back then a newbie doing hardly anything could still bring in a lot of sales so it was worth the little effort. Most would feel loyal to you for helping so would either push your site or simply use your ref code.
I don't really what the motivation is for helping people, apart from being a bloody nice bloke like me :)
smoothballs
12-11-07, 10:34 PM
Thats not really where i was coming from, it wasn't a dig at any one person it was just that I was talking to someone the other night about this and we thought it was funny that we are willing to help so many people. We were just saying "imagine doing..." (the scenario above)
Many many moons ago it was seen as a wise move to help "newbies" because one day they might become a whale, and even back then a newbie doing hardly anything could still bring in a lot of sales so it was worth the little effort. Most would feel loyal to you for helping so would either push your site or simply use your ref code.
I don't really what the motivation is for helping people, apart from being a bloody nice bloke like me :)
cos I've heard you a big cuddly bear! :)
Wasn't aware you worked on your electricity, merely came up with an example :innocent0001:
Must have been that other badbee who replied here then :P
http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum/showpost.php?p=168644&postcount=14
Must have been that other badbee who replied here then :P
http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum/showpost.php?p=168644&postcount=14
Yeah probably, he's a cunt too :character0079:
redwhiteandblue
12-11-07, 10:41 PM
Its not a dig at you or any one personally, but if the cap fits and all that.
I am asking this because surely its crazy for us to do what we do, helping hobbyists and part timers to make more money by showing them the best ways to do things. How many other "prefessions" would do it?
We are also helping to oversaturate the market even... actually its far too late for that now so I won't bother to say it.
But then, how often have you and others given out sound advice here only for it to be thrown back in your face by the newbie who doesn't like the answer he/she gets? You can lead a horse to water and all that...
ApacheAnderson
12-11-07, 10:51 PM
I've always belived that if you help people out 80% of them will return the favour. But giving out free help and advice has always paid back for me.
But there is always that 20% that'll take your advice/help/work, ignore it, do their own thing then complain about the advice/help/work you gave them being crap that'll make you wonder why you bother.
But then, how often have you and others given out sound advice here only for it to be thrown back in your face by the newbie who doesn't like the answer he/she gets? You can lead a horse to water and all that...
Whilst it doesn't go on too much on here, how many "established" webmasters spout shit in order to try and mislead newbies, and by the same token, how many so called proffessional webmasters come across as so fucking stupid it's hard to believe they can tie their own shoelaces, yet supposedly make a good living? Maybe that's a reason why people fancy having a go, thinking if he can earn money at it, anybody can.
Whilst it doesn't go on too much on here, how many "established" webmasters spout shit in order to try and mislead newbies, and by the same token, how many so called proffessional webmasters come across as so fucking stupid it's hard to believe they can tie their own shoelaces, yet supposedly make a good living? Maybe that's a reason why people fancy having a go, thinking if he can earn money at it, anybody can.
Is that just a very long winded way of saying Paul Markham? :)
AllRuth
12-11-07, 11:36 PM
Whilst it doesn't go on too much on here, how many "established" webmasters spout shit in order to try and mislead newbies, and by the same token, how many so called proffessional webmasters come across as so fucking stupid it's hard to believe they can tie their own shoelaces, yet supposedly make a good living? Maybe that's a reason why people fancy having a go, thinking if he can earn money at it, anybody can.
Liked the new blog in your link list there... it made me giggle anyway :)
samrogers
12-11-07, 11:37 PM
I appreciate all the help i have ever been given here and even when i have not been asking about it i have picked up a lot from here. Im not strictly a newb having been in the industry in a sense for a few years now as an amateur in front of the camera but fun as it is, I'm neither pretty enough or vain enough to think i could ever do that full time and support my mortgage as well as being unsustainable in the long term. I've got a plan I'm gradually developing my skills and as the income from the free sites and experience i gain building and promoting i will work up to paysites.
I am not yet by my own definition a webmaster but neither would i consider myself a hobbyist as it is my intention that this will eventually take over my day job and if not i will as always take away the skills i learn to use elsewhere and in other ways. I'm always reluctant to ask for help here as i appreciate that you are all professionals here and for the most part working for yourselves so all your time is precious to you.
Liked the new blog in your link list there... it made me giggle anyway :)
Always happy to make you giggle :character0079:
Is that just a very long winded way of saying Paul Markham? :)
how rude. Paulie does not try to mislead anyone.
how rude. Paulie does not try to mislead anyone.
Magic Join Links anyone :)
15 years ago no fucker in the industry, as it was, would help me in
anyway shape or form. Mind you most of the industry was illegal then
but hey ho! I had to learn the hard way.
You guys that are experienced in building and promoting sites,
have seen the business grow and grown with it,and fall into
three catagories, those that will help, those that will not
and those that will give out bullshit.
The guys that help, will invariably be site sponors,
so it is in your interest to help because the people you
help would look to promote your sites which inturn
generates you money. So you get an indirect payment
for your advice.
OK if some one is looking to set up a site that is in direct competition
to yours you're not going to tell them anything.
But lets face it if you are going to set up a site from scratch you're
not going to get your advice from a forum, you may try and
gain some basic knowledge but the sensible option would be to
pay for professional advice.
It seems to me that people coming into the industry fall
into two catagories, those that jump in feet first, ask for advice
then don't take it and those that ask questions get help and
act upon it after planning and researching what sector of the market
they want to enter.It is after all a business that these people
are starting.
The people that jump in feet first and don't take the advice
given will piss off the people giving the advice and people couldn't
blame you experienced guys for saying "fuck it" no more free
advice, no cunt listens so why waste my time.
This is the only industry I know of where experienced professionals
give out, for free, advice.
Perhaps the the guys that don't give advice but contribute to the
business related discussion threads have the best policy.
This industry will always have newcomers, most will fail some
will prosper. The ones that will posper will treat is as a business.
When a newbie pitches up you experienced guys should say OK
I will set you a site up, get traffic and get sales for you, that
will cost you £20,000.A ready made business.
or get an advice line on a premium rate number at £1.50 per
minute and give as much advice as in needed as long as they call you.
At the end of the day it is up to you who you give advice to.
WEGCash Robert
12-12-07, 03:40 AM
I need my eyes tested, I thought this said "People with Gay Jobs", I thought this'll be thread of the month.
That would be a thread for me lol!
I don't think any 'established' webmaster here (or who regularly posts at other boards) minds giving advice to anyone, whether they be newbies, or 'established' webmasters themselves, if they see the advice is being taken on board.
It's in our interests to help newbies so they don't start, or carry on, doing things like giving away the farm right off the bat, do things that are liable to get themselves in trouble (and further damage our already frowned upon by many image), and generally get more trustworthy and capable webmasters for such things as link trades etc.
Obviously there are those who mislead, or generally belittle those just starting out in the industry, but, and maybe I'm showing what a naive cunt I am here, as in 'real life', people for the most part are helpful to others.
I think that most of the new guys learning here might be those that are just lurking.
The thing about good advice, and the reason you can give it till the cows come home, is that no one listens.
I get about 2 emails a week from wannabe porn photographers and it always goes the same way. Firstly, they always send a life history essay that rambles on for ages. But its always long essay and zero pics. Then they finally get around to asking the big questions, to which the answers are always the same.
If you want to sell pics easily...
Find new models that have NEVER been shot before.
Make it rude.
DON'T shoot in your studio on a roll of green paper.
Shoot lots. Lots of images, lots of sets.
Film is over.
Don't submit art nude to fisting sites.
Two weeks later I usually get an email back.
"Thanks for the advice, I've done one set of (Insert name of 28 year old Netmodel hardcore model here) in my studio. There's two whole rolls of tranny film, I'm sure its great. If you promise to buy it I'll get it processed. I've booked her again to do another one, maybe two sets in 8 months time. Its arty stuff, I'm sure not all surfers like the explicit stuff. When can I expect my cheque?...."
They never send pics.
The reason G Ramsey shouts so fucking much is cause no one is fucking listening.
The thing about good advice, and the reason you can give it till the cows come home, is that no one listens.
I get about 2 emails a week from wannabe porn photographers and it always goes the same way. Firstly, they always send a life history essay that rambles on for ages. But its always long essay and zero pics. Then they finally get around to asking the big questions, to which the answers are always the same.
If you want to sell pics easily...
Find new models that have NEVER been shot before.
Make it rude.
DON'T shoot in your studio on a roll of green paper.
Shoot lots. Lots of images, lots of sets.
Film is over.
Don't submit art nude to fisting sites.
Two weeks later I usually get an email back.
"Thanks for the advice, I've done one set of (Insert name of 28 year old Netmodel hardcore model here) in my studio. There's two whole rolls of tranny film, I'm sure its great. If you promise to buy it I'll get it processed. I've booked her again to do another one, maybe two sets in 8 months time. Its arty stuff, I'm sure not all surfers like the explicit stuff. When can I expect my cheque?...."
They never send pics.
The reason G Ramsey shouts so fucking much is cause no one is fucking listening.
Thats the last time I write to you :(
Pushcube
12-12-07, 09:06 AM
I lurked for a long time on this board. I'd come here up to 10 times a day to see what was being talked about and discussed, and make notes (with pen and paper too!) and follow up by searching for more info to expand my knowledge of a subject. I decided to step out of the lurker shadows to be able to ask questions at some point, but tho I don't post much I do appreciate the amount of free advice I have gleaned from this board.
From my personal point of view, this place is an absolute goldmine for quality tips and advice that us newbies can learn from. When you have people (no brown-nosing intended here btw) like SGS and both the Simons, Smithsmedia and Geezer, PSL and TDF, TGiTC, HF, CardinalS etc.. giving out advice, for free, that's amazing to me, and those of us who try to learn from it thank you all :)
.....both the Simons,...BOTH Simon's? There's two of me?
Pushcube
12-12-07, 09:22 AM
you and simonsubams
you and simonsubamsnever heard of him. :catfight:
pornschool
12-12-07, 09:56 AM
I would like to thank everyone for the advise I have been given. I know that I will get a honest andrank reply to any postings I make. If I am a full-time website or a hobbist.
never heard of him. :catfight:
He is the good looking, talented, rich, clever one who everyone likes.
You are erm the other one :P
No one forces the experienced webmasters to answer but they choose to do so which I for one appreciate - in the same way, if someone asks a technology question which I feel I can answer Im happy to help where I can as its my area of expertise and its what Im good at. Its also worth bearing in mind that in many cases its not just newbies asking questions or asking for advice - in some cases its experienced webmasters with functioning member websites as well who are actually more of a threat than some newbie who knows nothing.
Thats the thing about a community and its one of the reasons I keep coming back to B&B despite not having any sort of established website nor web presence - everyone is willing to help everyone else out be it on a specifically porn level, general business related, technology or whatever else with a minimal amount of bitching and that to me can only be a good thing.
AllRuth
12-12-07, 10:11 AM
He is the good looking, talented, rich, clever one who everyone likes.
You are erm the other one :P
It's funny cos it's true! :catfight:
The reason G Ramsey shouts so fucking much is cause no one is fucking listening.
That is just like with this biz, I suppose its just human nature.
On Kitchen Nightmares people ask Ramsey to come and help cos their business is losing money so they are obviously doing something wrong. He tells them what they are doing wrong and shows them how to make it work and they basically say "bollocks it works my way".
If I had a pound for every time that has happened on here I would have £3.75
xcite-tv
12-12-07, 11:23 AM
Whilst it doesn't go on too much on here, how many "established" webmasters spout shit in order to try and mislead newbies, .
It does go on.. very true!!!
That is just like with this biz, I suppose its just human nature.
On Kitchen Nightmares people ask Ramsey to come and help cos their business is losing money so they are obviously doing something wrong. He tells them what they are doing wrong and shows them how to make it work and they basically say "bollocks it works my way".
If I had a pound for every time that has happened on here I would have £3.75
:takethat:
It does go on.. very true!!!
I don't think that many do, because they'd soon get called out on it. A lot of stuff though is not shared on boards, and when it is, I guarantee a bunch of people see it and think to themselves 'shut up ffs' lol (and I don't mean ffs the member here).
I don't think that many do, because they'd soon get called out on it. A lot of stuff though is not shared on boards, and when it is, I guarantee a bunch of people see it and think to themselves 'shut up ffs' lol (and I don't mean ffs the member here).
Yeah I don't think people are mislead either, unless its done in private cos like you said if it was on a board people would soon put it right.
Why would a professional fear an amateur?
Because they won't be amateurs forever. Now take 100 "amateurs" and soon you have 100 "prefessionals" well 2, maybe, if they are lucky :)
This is not really about fearing the "amateur" or the competition its just a strange situation where this happens. I think most other buisness would just tell you fuck off.
redwhiteandblue
12-12-07, 01:14 PM
As one or two here already know, they can always ask me anything they like about PHP scripts, MySQL or CSS, and I won't have a sodding clue how to help them.
wingless
12-12-07, 01:23 PM
Because they won't be amateurs forever. Now take 100 "amateurs" and soon you have 100 "prefessionals" well 2, maybe, if they are lucky :)
This is not really about fearing the "amateur" or the competition its just a strange situation where this happens. I think most other buisness would just tell you fuck off.
i have to aggree with you on this, ive worked in more industrys than i care to remember and this is the first one where i have recived so much help as a noob
SimonSubAms
12-12-07, 04:48 PM
never heard of him. :catfight:
You fight dirty :gaylords:
SimonSubAms
12-12-07, 04:49 PM
He is the good looking, talented, rich, clever one who everyone likes.
and you talk dirty :gaylords:
Bernice
12-12-07, 08:04 PM
Imagine how I felt as a Domme and escort facing the same shit - 10 years experience as a Domme perfecting my craft and then amatur houswives with fuck all equipment and no know how move in and start doing it for free - thats life I'm afraid.
Imagine how I felt as a Domme and escort facing the same shit - 10 years experience as a Domme perfecting my craft and then amatur houswives with fuck all equipment and no know how move in and start doing it for free - thats life I'm afraid.
And you would have helped them set up, advise on what equipment to use etc etc ????
Bernice
12-12-07, 10:59 PM
Not sure as an escort what I could advise anyone else on to be honest - erm - lay back and think of the money :)
But yes geezer - there are BDSM boards where pros discuss stuff and try and help novices - mostly to try and help people not get killed by clients and not kill any clients either.
Is part of business I think- all businesses to some degree have a kind of 'friendly enemy' position. I at one time helped a few other webmasters start up in the early days and will often hand out some advice for what its worth. Whether people take up on it or not I dont really care. If I'm asked I'll state an opnion but as you know I just dont believe there is a 100% sure fire website or business. Seen some good ones go bust, seen my own lil' enterprises do well, so shit and do inbetween and its bloody hard to know what will work. I'd never have believed anyone would buy plastic sandals - but hey call them crocs and watch the ££££ pour in eh ?
But you do touch a nerve in a way - and I said it before and got flamed that few on most webmaster boards ARE making any serious cash - all the one I know who are hugely successful dont have tome to post on webmaster boards. Yeah theres a few who do but most of us ( and I include me in that ) are small beer really compared to the truly major players.
Theres lots of burger stands but only one MacDonalds ( thank Christ :) )
Paul Markham
12-13-07, 09:46 AM
Why would a professional fear an amateur?
Just a stab at it.
Because in an already crowded market they make it more crowded. They bring down the over all standard of what we present the consumer. They might not be effective but they could be harmful.
Always wondered how desperate some programs are to get traffic that they will throw newbies into the fray.
But what the fuck do I know?
Always wondered how desperate some programs are to get traffic that they will throw newbies into the fray.
From the king of spamming for newbie affiliates...
johnboy
12-13-07, 10:30 AM
This is not really about fearing the "amateur" or the competition its just a strange situation where this happens. I think most other buisness would just tell you fuck off
It's a really good point and strange situation indeed. Bring back the sparky analogy made at the top of the thread, any local sparky that gave out free advice to someone next door on how to become a successful competitor is clearly asking for trouble or certainly hasn't got his business head screwed on.
I don't think it's fearing the competition or lowering standards, and this is probably the most helpful webmasters forum out there. It's just a really weird situation where you get top quality advice for nothing from really experienced people. In any pretty much other business format, if you asked for advice on how to succeed in your business, you would either be told to fuck off or have an invoice in the post the next day
xcite-tv
12-13-07, 10:38 AM
unless its done in private cos like you said if it was on a board people would soon put it right.
whats said and done in private sometimes just cant be said here..
Paul Markham
12-13-07, 10:43 AM
From the king of spamming for newbie affiliates...
You say I spam them another board says I don't want them. Which one is right?
I spam affiliates I don't want. :noway2:
I have said in many threads that we as an industry paint a rosie picture to affiliates in not telling them that there chances of survival is less than 1-50. Look around at the posters, few newbies last very long. I have said we should raise the entry bar level for the good of those in and those coming in. But many programs like to have newbies submitting galleries, opening blogs, etc. If only for the links and the slim chance of a sale.
If you can find me saying it's easy to make a living as a newbie affiliate I will give you a very public apology. Something recent of course, it was easier a long time back
Paul Markham
12-13-07, 10:50 AM
It's a really good point and strange situation indeed. Bring back the sparky analogy made at the top of the thread, any local sparky that gave out free advice to someone next door on how to become a successful competitor is clearly asking for trouble or certainly hasn't got his business head screwed on.
I don't think it's fearing the competition or lowering standards, and this is probably the most helpful webmasters forum out there. It's just a really weird situation where you get top quality advice for nothing from really experienced people. In any pretty much other business format, if you asked for advice on how to succeed in your business, you would either be told to fuck off or have an invoice in the post the next day
The most stupid advice is telling a newbie to copy a guy who has been doing it 5 or more years. Like telling a 12 year old to play football the way a Premier League player does it.
If you can find me saying it's easy to make a living as a newbie affiliate I will give you a very public apology. Something recent of course, it was easier a long time back
If you can point out where in this thread I said you said it was easy to make a living as a newbie affiliate I will understand what the fuck the above quote has to do with anything.
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So, you are saying you don't spam the fuck out of your program to get newbies on board?
The most stupid advice is telling a newbie to copy a guy who has been doing it 5 or more years. Like telling a 12 year old to play football the way a Premier League player does it.
Why is that stupid?? Am I missing something here? What should you tell the 12 year old boy to do? Play football like Steven Hendry????????
Paul Markham
12-13-07, 11:43 AM
From the king of spamming for newbie affiliates...
Did I read this wrong?
Jase sorry if you don't get it. I will try to explain.
You teach newbies the basic steps, some people point at experienced professionals as the only way to go forward. I said some.
Did I read this wrong?
Jase sorry if you don't get it. I will try to explain.
You teach newbies the basic steps, some people point at experienced professionals as the only way to go forward. I said some.
I agree that everyone should learn to walk before they run but I dont agree that I shouldnt look at someone who is doing it already and doing it well and try and be like them and aspire to get to their level.
Actually take the "day job" bit out of it, and you still have same analogy.
How many experienced webmasters are proficient in all areas of their business? How many ask what could be seen as business rivals to help in the areas they are not proficient at?
That wouldn't happen in the mainstream world either very often, it's unlikely that you'd ask the bloke from the chippy down the road to help you set up your new kebab machine.
Paul Markham
12-13-07, 02:00 PM
I agree that everyone should learn to walk before they run but I dont agree that I shouldnt look at someone who is doing it already and doing it well and try and be like them and aspire to get to their level.
Aspire and use them as a goal. But some of the advice is way off. What many don't know is when they started it was easier and they learned, like newbies have to, to run before they walk. Start slow, do something you love doing, do it with fun, love and care. If you think you're going to get rich today in Internet porn the odds are stacked against you.
Too much of the advice and posting is aimed at sugar coating the pill to get new affiliates driving traffic at a sponsor who can't lose. You're free labour in most cases.
OK that's the bad news. Now for the good. It's a load of fun putting up websites, galleries, blogs, review sites or what ever. Look on it as a hobby that will cost you less than most. Listen to advice and think if it's logical or someone is selling to you. The biggest chunk of money on the Adult Net is spent selling to affiliates.
If you love porn you have a chance, if you love money I don't give you much of a chance.
I have never ever said anything else, in fact I've advised newbies to go back a year on the board and see the threads started by newbies and the post count stopped at 100 approx. They gave up and disappeared.
Did I read this wrong?
wtf has that got to do with me saying you .... oh never mind I can't be arsed to waste any more time on a cunt who goes off at tangents to his own fucking posts.
Paul Markham
12-13-07, 02:07 PM
wtf has that got to do with me saying you .... oh never mind I can't be arsed to waste any more time on a cunt who goes off at tangents to his own fucking posts.oh never mind I can't be arsed to waste any more time on a cunt who denies his own fucking posts.
For someone who does not want to waste time, you're an expert at it.
Are you still denying you said I spam to newbies?
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