View Full Version : Zango Targetting CCBill & Epoch Join Forms.
This is no longer an issue any site owner can ignore on the basis of "not my problem they're not targetting me"
If you own a site, then they are now directly stealing your join page traffic. As soon as the zango infected surfer clicks that signup button and goes to the bill.ccbill sign-up page, Zango is popping a full-screen sign-up page for another site over the top of the ccbill page.
At worst the surfer is going to sign-up with the other site and not even know it wasn't your site they signed up to. This not only steals the money directly out of your pocket it also leaves you open to the customer support issues because the surfer thinks he joined your site, a record of which you don't have because he was stolen at the sign-up page.
The buck can no longer be passed. It is all of our problems, not just an affiliate link theft problem.
I agree. I have been following this issue 'elsewhere'...
Allthough Im not personally running a paysite myself at the moment, I am doing affilliate stuff with ccBill... So it affects me just as much as anyone else.
As just a small time webguy, I dont have the answers but if theres anything that CAN be done... I'm gonna join in and do whatever I can.
wingless
10-06-07, 09:19 PM
I agree. I have been following this issue 'elsewhere'...
Allthough Im not personally running a paysite myself at the moment, I am doing affilliate stuff with ccBill... So it affects me just as much as anyone else.
As just a small time webguy, I dont have the answers but if theres anything that CAN be done... I'm gonna join in and do whatever I can.
ditto, i dont know how i can help but if someone tells me then i will do my best
redwhiteandblue
10-06-07, 09:24 PM
It's possible to detect Zango in the user agent isn't it? It wouldn't take much to redirect to a warning page informing of how to uninstall it, has anyone got a page up anywhere explaining to surfers why they should do this?
stevebougle
10-06-07, 09:48 PM
I do believe that Adult Friend Finder are part of the zango set up.
I was going to add them to one of my sites but after a bit of investigation decided not to.
I do believe that if you promote AFF you are inviting Zango to help themselves to your money.
wingless
10-06-07, 09:49 PM
I do believe that Adult Friend Finder are part of the zango set up.
I was going to add them to one of my sites but after a bit of investigation decided not to.
I do believe that if you promote AFF you are inviting Zango to help themselves to your money.
aww dont say that, i just signed up to promote them :(
Yeah. AFF is one of the WORST culprits that I know of, and as I said, Ive been following this 'elsewhere' for about 6 months...
stevebougle
10-06-07, 10:09 PM
Yeah. AFF is one of the WORST culprits that I know of, and as I said, Ive been following this 'elsewhere' for about 6 months...
Same here, I also dumped thumblogger as I believe they are part of the "Zango Gang"
Same here, I also dumped thumblogger as I believe they are part of the "Zango Gang"
Didn't know that, that why its better use www.isanadultblog.com (http://www.isanadultblog.com) for free hosted adult blogs ;)
It's possible to detect Zango in the user agent isn't it? It wouldn't take much to redirect to a warning page informing of how to uninstall it, has anyone got a page up anywhere explaining to surfers why they should do this?
Yes there is a way to redirect zango traffic with a user agent statement in htaccess..
Problem 1 is there are so many user agents now and it's becoming full time to keep that htaccess current.
Problem 2 is you've got horny surfer cock-in-hand ready to join your site and here you are sending him to a page and telling him he's "infected" and to do this that and the other, my guess is you've just as much lost that sale as you did letting zango steal it in the first place. He's not going to clean his computer, all he's going to see if "infected" associate that with your site, and never come back.
This needs to be something done on a legal level. This stuff needs making illegal, sure it won't stop it completely, but it will slow it down, especially if we can cut the purse strings and make it not worthwhile. Sticking a finger in the dam will only help so much, the flood will overcome that eventually.
Nottslad
10-07-07, 01:25 AM
I think thumblogger got lumped in (somewhat unfairly imho) because they use an AFF link on all their blogs, and AFF admited to using Zango in the past. Thumblogger do offer an alternative ad though if you dont want to use the default.
Paul Markham
10-07-07, 07:25 AM
What proof do you have of this?
Can you show screen grabs?
Also is it only pornsites with Epoch and CCBILL join pages?
Seems to me if I wanted to join a site and was on the CCBILL join page and a full page ad popped up I would be very pissed off. If I joined a site I was not sold on I would be charging back.
Need more info please. Will look on the other site, hopes it's GFZ. LOL
This is the screenshot posted on the other boards.
The top "popped" zango window has been resized and moved aside to show the window underneath.
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1631/ccbillxxxpassok7.jpg
Paul Markham
10-07-07, 09:13 AM
Thanks REBEL. They are not only stealing from the sponsor they are stealing from CCBILL and Epoch.
This could be the big thing.
Elisha Jade
10-07-07, 10:01 AM
As soon as I found out aff were involved with zango I dropped them as a sponsor. Is there anything ccbill or epoch can do or we as a collective?
onlytease
10-07-07, 10:34 AM
that is bad news. we were about to start promoting cams.com but i see this is part of aff so if aff are using zango we will drop them as well.
As well as the lost sales. It would be a fucking pain, that the customers use your contact info to try and complain about the site not being the one they thought they paid for
This is no longer an issue any site owner can ignore on the basis of "not my problem they're not targetting me"
If you own a site, then they are now directly stealing your join page traffic. As soon as the zango infected surfer clicks that signup button and goes to the bill.ccbill sign-up page, Zango is popping a full-screen sign-up page for another site over the top of the ccbill page.
At worst the surfer is going to sign-up with the other site and not even know it wasn't your site they signed up to. This not only steals the money directly out of your pocket it also leaves you open to the customer support issues because the surfer thinks he joined your site, a record of which you don't have because he was stolen at the sign-up page.
The buck can no longer be passed. It is all of our problems, not just an affiliate link theft problem.
Rebel, have you ever seen any credible figures of what percentage of users have Zango on their machine
Paul Markham
10-07-07, 10:58 AM
Rebel, have you ever seen any credible figures of what percentage of users have Zango on their machine
This goes further than Zango, however I did hear 1-10 was infected. Some galleries ask you to download a player to see the movie clip. When in fact what you download is Spyware.
This goes further than Zango, however I did hear 1-10 was infected. Some galleries ask you to download a player to see the movie clip. When in fact what you download is Spyware.
Really? If it is anywhere near that figure thats fucking huge isnt it
redwhiteandblue
10-07-07, 11:13 AM
I don't think it's that many but a quick perusal of the user agents from one of my sites shows two out of about 200 visitors is infected with Zango. So about 1% but this is not a very scientific analysis. That's still a lot though.
I think thumblogger got lumped in (somewhat unfairly imho) because they use an AFF link on all their blogs, and AFF admited to using Zango in the past. Thumblogger do offer an alternative ad though if you dont want to use the default.
how is it unfairly, when you use and support a known scam?
Rebel, have you ever seen any credible figures of what percentage of users have Zango on their machine
Zango also targets several other very widely used toolbars.
First brought this problem up over 2 years ago btw.
stevebougle
10-07-07, 01:36 PM
Zango also targets several other very widely used toolbars.
First brought this problem up over 2 years ago btw.
What are they it would be good to know who or what to avoid.
daveydude
10-07-07, 02:06 PM
Googled "zango aff" B&B is the top link btw.
Found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8op3QGpVhDc
"AFF pops a new window with new affiliate code over the top of window clicked from Rabbits Reviews"
Nottslad
10-07-07, 03:33 PM
how is it unfairly, when you use and support a known scam?
Because thumblogger, to my knowledge, don't use Zango directly so it's a little unfair to lump them in with those that do. Granted they do have an AFF ad as default, and AFF did use Zango a while back - so you could claim "guilty by association".
It's a question of how far you take it though.
E.G Would you refuse linktrades from other sites promoting sponsors that use Zango? If so, would you refuse linktrades from sites that didnt use such sponsors but did have linktrades with third sites that did? And how many levels do you take it.
gandalfuy
10-07-07, 09:18 PM
This is the screenshot posted on the other boards.
The top "popped" zango window has been resized and moved aside to show the window underneath.
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1631/ccbillxxxpassok7.jpg
OMG!!!
thats horrible!
Rebel, have you ever seen any credible figures of what percentage of users have Zango on their machine
Not public ones, I've seen anywhere from 1 to 10% depending on traffic source (if you''re trading with someone/ in a neighbourhood who dishes out installs you're certainly gonna see a higher amount of infected traffic).
Johnny Kleenexxx
10-08-07, 03:11 PM
it's the talk of most boards . . nuff people are bugging out over it
Paul Markham
10-08-07, 03:39 PM
I'm going to be putting up a page for all my surfers warning them about the dangers of Spyware and how to stop it or delete it. Any clever bugger want tot help me?
I'm going to be putting up a page for all my surfers warning them about the dangers of Spyware and how to stop it or delete it. Any clever bugger want tot help me?
I know this may sound funny, but I would be carefull doing that. For a couple of reasons.
Firstly you could be having surfers on your case, trying to get you to help them with their machines, wether a result of your help or not.
But secondly, you may be reminding them of the dangers (or perceived dangers) of surfing for porn, just before they have handed over their money. Nothing kills a hard on like the thought of having your puter fucked
Cardinal_Sin
10-08-07, 04:34 PM
Shhhh!
Quick Buck
Paul Markham
10-08-07, 05:01 PM
I know this may sound funny, but I would be carefull doing that. For a couple of reasons.
Firstly you could be having surfers on your case, trying to get you to help them with their machines, wether a result of your help or not.
But secondly, you may be reminding them of the dangers (or perceived dangers) of surfing for porn, just before they have handed over their money. Nothing kills a hard on like the thought of having your puter fucked
I appreciate that and glad you pointed it out. What's the alternative?
Wait for them to get their computers fucked and try to recover it afterwards?
It has to be worded carefully and you might have a point about doing it to surfers. Might be best to have it inside the members area. Of course what ever is recommended needs to be simple and honest.
I don't believe members traffic is as ignorant as many think.
We need to be proactive rather than reactive.
redwhiteandblue
10-08-07, 05:25 PM
It has to be worded carefully and you might have a point about doing it to surfers. Might be best to have it inside the members area.
If I'm understanding the situation correctly, the problem with this Zango shit is that the surfers will never get to your members area.
Scotty.T
10-08-07, 05:29 PM
If I'm understanding the situation correctly, the problem with this Zango shit is that the surfers will never get to your members area.
Yep that is the potential problem in this case with Zango. But I think Paul is on about educating his existing member base.
Paul Markham
10-08-07, 05:56 PM
If I'm understanding the situation correctly, the problem with this Zango shit is that the surfers will never get to your members area.
Which is why we need to act on educating them.
You're not 100% right, Zango pops up a window that the surfer can or cannot react to. Yes it is costing us sales and yes we need to fight it.
stevebougle
10-08-07, 05:59 PM
Is there any other site besides AFF that has Zango on them.
Educate the webmasters first.
Paul Markham
10-08-07, 06:11 PM
Is there any other site besides AFF that has Zango on them.
Educate the webmasters first.
Loads of them and if you educate the webmasters what do you achieve, we already know about them.
Webmasters can only stop sending the sites that support Spyware traffic, which could result in the sites needing more traffic to Spyware.
Johnny Kleenexxx
10-08-07, 06:14 PM
Shhhh!
Quick Buck
the jury is out
lawyers are involved
best not to speculate
Cardinal_Sin
10-08-07, 06:20 PM
Loads of them and if you educate the webmasters what do you achieve, we already know about them.
Webmasters can only stop sending the sites that support Spyware traffic, which could result in the sites needing more traffic to Spyware.
Herein lies the biggest problem, Paul. Zango had so much bad publicity last year, it attracted all the scummasters who mascarade as webmasters - This latest "find" going direct from our sign up pages to Quick Buck sign up pages simply shows how far scumbags will go to make a fast buck.
AFF now are turning over even more cash per day than they ever did before - Just how much of it is stolen traffic?
Zango has been fined heavily in the past - But a few million dollars is just a drop in the ocean to what they are making out of this scam. Webmasters are paying more per click for zango traffic than they are for google traffic -
Cardinal_Sin
10-08-07, 06:24 PM
the jury is out
lawyers are involved
best not to speculate
Nothing to speculate about - ccbill and paycom sign up pages were replaced with quick buck sign up pages - Hooper's record with spyware is well known -
Was it quick buck or an errant webmaster? My money is on ...
stevebougle
10-08-07, 06:25 PM
Loads of them and if you educate the webmasters what do you achieve, we already know about them.
Webmasters can only stop sending the sites that support Spyware traffic, which could result in the sites needing more traffic to Spyware.
The thing is that if we know what sites have spyware we can avoid having anything to do with them.
Like I have said previously I was going to join up with AFF untill I was educated about the methods they use, consequently I decided not to.
Paul Markham
10-08-07, 07:21 PM
Herein lies the biggest problem, Paul. Zango had so much bad publicity last year, it attracted all the scummasters who mascarade as webmasters - This latest "find" going direct from our sign up pages to Quick Buck sign up pages simply shows how far scumbags will go to make a fast buck.
AFF now are turning over even more cash per day than they ever did before - Just how much of it is stolen traffic?
Zango has been fined heavily in the past - But a few million dollars is just a drop in the ocean to what they are making out of this scam. Webmasters are paying more per click for zango traffic than they are for google traffic -
Agreed, so what do we do about it?
I'm not the brainiest guy here but I'm coming up with actions we can take before the surfer is screwed. So far the only other positive I've seen is stop sending them traffic. Which drives them to more under hand scumming scams. And trying to delete the spyware after the computer has been infected which is crazy, the guy is less likely to land on our sites.
We could post it on surfers message boards, our sites - inside or out - and generally educate the surfer.
Johnny Kleenexxx
10-08-07, 07:46 PM
We could post it on surfers message boards, our sites - inside or out - and generally educate the surfer.
alright sexy
"beware of zango" banners . . smoke 'em out . . aargh
I appreciate that and glad you pointed it out. What's the alternative?
Wait for them to get their computers fucked and try to recover it afterwards?
It has to be worded carefully and you might have a point about doing it to surfers. Might be best to have it inside the members area. Of course what ever is recommended needs to be simple and honest.
I don't believe members traffic is as ignorant as many think.
We need to be proactive rather than reactive.
I agree with you, its a hard call. Do we educate and potentially scare off sales or not?
I really dont have the answer, but can see problems with highlighting a problem that the majority of surfers dont have and risk highlighting a perceived issue in general, in the saftey of surfing for porn
The thing is that if we know what sites have spyware we can avoid having anything to do with them.
Its not always that easy, many of us have been having this or other stuff planted on our sites through scripts etc.
The main thing as far as I can see is for webmasters to take the moral high ground and not to do business with known scammers and theives.
Wether this sometimes meens making less in the sort term
Paul Markham
10-08-07, 09:42 PM
I agree with you, its a hard call. Do we educate and potentially scare off sales or not?
I really dont have the answer, but can see problems with highlighting a problem that the majority of surfers dont have and risk highlighting a perceived issue in general, in the saftey of surfing for porn
I agree it's a hard call. Situation is that we need to do something more than not send traffic to people who support Spyware or try to get rid of it after it's been installed.
this thread is prize worthy, alone for the mutual agreeing and heart warming harmony.
Johnny Kleenexxx
10-08-07, 09:57 PM
this thread is prize worthy, alone for the mutual agreeing and heart warming harmony.
not sucking eachothers cocks just yet . . but getting there
i'm following this elsewhere tbh
some major players in this debacle are flaming eachother raw as we speak
I should think that the only people who can do anythning about this are ccbill and epoch by setting up a spoof url their end to post information to or if its done using meta tags then simply change them
Are they aware of this ?
Paul Markham
10-09-07, 07:17 AM
I should think that the only people who can do anythning about this are ccbill and epoch by setting up a spoof url their end to post information to or if its done using meta tags then simply change them
Are they aware of this ?
I phoned them Sunday when I learned about it, they were on it and waiting for management to come in Monday. It's time they stepped up with a statement.
Cardinal_Sin
10-09-07, 08:40 AM
I phoned them Sunday when I learned about it, they were on it and waiting for management to come in Monday. It's time they stepped up with a statement.
The zango/ccbill issue has been fixed and zango will no longer target ccbill join pages - Haven't heard anything about paycom or others -
I assume things like nats and other cascading programmes could be being targetted - Just my thoughts, tho - Haven't heard.
The real problem with all of this zango shite is that so many adult webmasters are getting zango cash to persuade surfers into downloading this scumware - I have even seen kids games online for downloads which auto adds zango to your browser -
The only logical way I can think of is that all webmasters who are supposedly against this stuff, get together and work out some kind of marketing campagn to educate the surfer - If millions of web pages carried an advert explaining just what zango is, and a link to a cleaning tool for those already affected, this would do some serious damage to zango in the long and short term -
However - Most webmasters will cry about zang - But doing something positive about it is something else.
The zango/ccbill issue has been fixed and zango will no longer target ccbill join pages - Haven't heard anything about paycom or others -
I assume things like nats and other cascading programmes could be being targetted - Just my thoughts, tho - Haven't heard.
The real problem with all of this zango shite is that so many adult webmasters are getting zango cash to persuade surfers into downloading this scumware - I have even seen kids games online for downloads which auto adds zango to your browser -
The only logical way I can think of is that all webmasters who are supposedly against this stuff, get together and work out some kind of marketing campagn to educate the surfer - If millions of web pages carried an advert explaining just what zango is, and a link to a cleaning tool for those already affected, this would do some serious damage to zango in the long and short term -
However - Most webmasters will cry about zang - But doing something positive about it is something else.
I wouldnt put a warning on my paysites for the reason I put above, but am very happy to post an article on my blogs about it and keep rotating it in. If everyone does the same and we get a small campaign going, it might start to do something
Does anyone have such an article and a zango removal link?
Cardinal_Sin
10-09-07, 09:40 AM
I wouldnt put a warning on my paysites for the reason I put above, but am very happy to post an article on my blogs about it and keep rotating it in. If everyone does the same and we get a small campaign going, it might start to do something
Does anyone have such an article and a zango removal link?
http://spywareadwarehelp.blogspot.com/2006/11/remove-zango-from-your-computer.html
Of course, would be absurd to mention zango on a paysite - The thing is to get surfers before that - Free sites
http://spywareadwarehelp.blogspot.com/2006/11/remove-zango-from-your-computer.html
Of course, would be absurd to mention zango on a paysite - The thing is to get surfers before that - Free sites
I gotta agree i think putting some detail on how to remove zango on your free sites may help more than on your pay site as if they are on your pay site or an existing member is nt it safe to assume they aren't infected ?
Hope that makes sense its still early :reading:
I gotta agree i think putting some detail on how to remove zango on your free sites may help more than on your pay site as if they are on your pay site or an existing member is nt it safe to assume they aren't infected ?
Hope that makes sense its still early :reading:
No that isnt safe to assume. Infact its wrong. :)
No that isnt safe to assume. Infact its wrong. :)
:noway2: fine its too early then
Paul Markham
10-09-07, 10:25 AM
The zango/ccbill issue has been fixed and zango will no longer target ccbill join pages - Haven't heard anything about paycom or others -
I assume things like nats and other cascading programmes could be being targetted - Just my thoughts, tho - Haven't heard.
The real problem with all of this zango shite is that so many adult webmasters are getting zango cash to persuade surfers into downloading this scumware - I have even seen kids games online for downloads which auto adds zango to your browser -
The only logical way I can think of is that all webmasters who are supposedly against this stuff, get together and work out some kind of marketing campagn to educate the surfer - If millions of web pages carried an advert explaining just what zango is, and a link to a cleaning tool for those already affected, this would do some serious damage to zango in the long and short term -
However - Most webmasters will cry about zang - But doing something positive about it is something else.
I must be dreaming Cardinal and I agree on something. Just a minute I'm going to pinch myself. :catfight:
I'm also think some class action or something legal needs putting together. Educating the surfers is one thing. But a message needs sending that this kind of thievery will not be tolerated. Hit them in the pocket book.
Like piracy and spam it's not something we're ever going to be able to annihilate completely. But we can at least push for it to be illegal so that there is more we can do about those that are caught.
Just spoken to Paycom / Epoch about this.
They are aware and looking into how they can stop it happening
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