View Full Version : Why crime is out of controll
dvtimes
08-24-07, 10:00 AM
To me the problem these days is that most crime has no real punishment.
By this in truth you can steal cars, break into houses and so on and the worst you will probably get is the anoyence of being arrested and going to court. Apart from that mabe comunity service but probably not even that.
Sure if you do not pay your tv licence at aged 80 then you will probably go to prison, but if your some thug who throws briks at that 80 year olds house, your not even going to get told off. Indeed if you approch one of these thugs you will probably get arrested.
Anyway, the result is that kids now have no barriers. Thus they may start of with small crimes, but after so long justy move up. Confidence grows and they get it into there heads they are gangsters, the result is they carry guns and use them.
Of course one part of me suspects that this is a goverment plot. By allowing crime to get worse, they can bring in new laws that take away our rights. In deed asbos themselves do that. You can with an asbo controll most people now. When I say controll, I do not mean make them good, but say in the case of a political demonstrator, take away there right to demonstrate.
Anyway, I digress on the matter.
We now have a situation which I belive was created by the goverment. Possibly too by the police. By this I mean in the past (and still now) some police have abused there powers, and so these days laws exsist to protect people who are arrested. But this has meant criminals have simply abused the laws and rules and now just now the system.
In truth criminals will probably get less punished by the law than those who do not commit crime. By this, I mean it makes more logical sense to steal a car each day, drive it around, fill it with fuel without paying, rather than buy a car, tax it (and insure and mot it), then spend your time getting court on seed cameras and paying fines, getting parking fines and so on.
The reality these days in that unfortunatly it makes far more sense being a criminal than not being one.
It is no wonder so many are leaving the UK.
In truth if I had kids, i do not think I would feel safe them going to a public school in the UK.
Because we have had a labour government who for the last many sad years who have put 100% of their effort into spin and branding and zero effort into running the country
dvtimes
08-24-07, 10:06 AM
Because we have had a labour government who for the last many sad years who have put 100% of their effort into spin and branding and zero effort into running the country
They were spinning it again last night on newsnight. It was unberlivable.
Thursby
08-24-07, 10:34 AM
I think the problem is that people who don't care, just don't care. Brown was on the box last night saying he'd make whatever laws were necessary to tackle this problem. But as far as I'm aware, it's already illegal to own a handgun and/or shoot people.
Unfortunately the Prime Minister comes from a very strict church background - he's just like a Wee-Free Sunday School teacher - so he can't possibly comprehend the idea of a family where no-one gives a fuck about anything other than their perception of what looks good in front of their equally shit-for-brains social circle.
There's now a significant portion of our society - as feaured on Jeremy Kyle et al - that thinks it know its rights but undertsands nothing about the effort needed to fulfil the responsibilities that make those rights possible in the first place.
Shandy McAndy
08-24-07, 10:36 AM
I think the problem is that people who don't care, just don't care.
More than dont care. Want where they live to be like that. Scum like to live in scum
I think a lot of what has happened of the last 50 years or so is quite fundamental to society as a whole.
Childhood is not a state of being. Childhood has a purpose!
That purpose is to learn how to be an adult.
That has been forgotten on a massive scale in the western world, and particularly in the USA and UK where there has been a mass movement of protection and sheltering of childhood. "Let them enjoy their innocence".
But children need to learn the harsh realities of life, not be protected from them, if they are to grow into well-balanced adults. As long as they are not abused and their vulnerabilities exploited then they will always enjoy their childhood. They don't need it "forced" upon them.
We now have the situation where the children reach adolescence and can see the world properly through their own eyes and realise the world they've been "trained" for in their childhood doesn't exist. Distrust and disillusionment set in, and a lack of respect for the society they belong to means they feel they have no place within that society.
strictlybroadband
08-24-07, 11:48 AM
Crime has fallen in the past decade, despite the constant spin to the contrary.
dvtimes
08-24-07, 11:56 AM
Crime has fallen in the past decade, despite the constant spin to the contrary.
I'm not sure it has.
I suspect its just recorded crime that may have droped.
By that I mean people no longer report minor crimes as they once did. And also I suspect they way its recorded is not direct, but done in a way to make the figures look good, a bit like the unemployment figures.
dvtimes
08-24-07, 11:57 AM
turn on talk sport as cameran and jack straw are going on air in the next hour. May be good to listen to.
dvtimes
08-24-07, 12:06 PM
By the way, 'Possession of weapons - Long-term national recorded crime trend' has increased dramaticly.
http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page48.asp
I would sugest that conserns people most.
In deed one could state that the reason other crimes have gone down (to what it was a few years ago) may not be down to better crime prevention, but the fact that some crimes no longer are worth doing.
Ie, a few years ago it was worth stealing some items due to them being worth so much, such as mobile phones, laptops and so on. But such as laptops are now so cheap they are not worth stealing, and mobile phones are also killed when stolen.
But I do suspect that the figures are not recored as they were once. We also know that in some areas crime is not reported regardless, just look as the 11 year old who was killed, all the people in the area said they would never contact the police.
redwhiteandblue
08-24-07, 12:29 PM
Crime has fallen in the past decade, despite the constant spin to the contrary.
Do you know that for a fact, or is it just something you believe?
20 years ago we had the tragedy in Hungerford when a guy went nuts and started shooting people indiscriminately. At the time the country was horrified as it was the sort of thing we just weren't used to.
Now we have kids riding around on bikes shooting other kids. We have people being shot dead on motorways. We have people being shot dead for telling the wrong person to stop smoking.
Yes maybe less car stereos are being stolen these days, that's because we've all learned that you must not have anything on display anywhere that cost you a bit of your hard earned money, because someone will have it off you. Or, that when you do get something stolen, there's absolutely no point in reporting it as all that happens is your insurance company finds out and invalidates your policy.
Crime has fallen in the past decade, despite the constant spin to the contrary.
The crime stats for over all crime has fallen. As the way crime is calculated has fallen. Spin has made it so.
But even changing the ways crime stats are calculated, the crimes most people are scared of like violent crime has risen, even by the spin artists very distorted figures
Violent crime is on the rise everywhere.
The cost of a gun on the streets £150, bullets £20 each!
or
you can rent a gun:noway2:
The courts need to stop fuckin around and get tough
Possessing a firearm carries a minimum sentence (ministers insist on calling it "mandatory", but it is not) of five years. That means release, in normal circumstances, after 30 months.
For those aged between 17 and 21, the minimum sentence is three years, which means release after just 18 months.
Is it any wonder these scum bags don't give a flying fuck about anybody or anything when you they get custodial sentences like the above.
The police want the five-year minimum sentence extended to everyone over 17 for the possession of an illegal firearm and/or ammunition, why doesn't the Gov agree to do it.
I suppose we will be back to the bad old days of 24 hour ARU's on the streets.
Violent crime is on the rise everywhere.
Read Freakanomics. In fact, all of you read it. It's very good.
Read Freakanomics. In fact, all of you read it. It's very good.
Will it tell me why violent crime in Manchester is again on the increase?
Will it tell me why violent crime in Manchester is again on the increase?
No.
It will tell you some very interesting facts about a decrease in violent crimes in America being linked to abortion though.
It's a fascinating book.
redwhiteandblue
08-24-07, 02:15 PM
Read Freakanomics. In fact, all of you read it. It's very good.
You're asking us to actually sit down and read an entire book? I haven't even got the attention span to finish writing this p..
Violent crime is on the rise everywhere.
The cost of a gun on the streets £150, bullets £20 each!
or
you can rent a gun:noway2: Thats less than the cost of a real/legal gun, though I don't doubt it its true. The ammo is a bit steep, pretty sure I can undercut that rate next time you're in need :)
The courts need to stop fuckin around and get toughYes, life meaning life.
Possessing a firearm carries a minimum sentence (ministers insist on calling it "mandatory", but it is not) of five years. That means release, in normal circumstances, after 30 months.
For those aged between 17 and 21, the minimum sentence is three years, which means release after just 18 months. No. Mandatory sentences are always bad. Fit a silencer to a legally owned rifle and the combo is then considered a "new" unlicensed weapon. It could be an honest mistake by a shooter trying not to disturb the neighbours. Does he deserve 10 years? The courts would have no choice... Punish harshly those who really deserve it, but don't take away flexiblity in the courts. Which is all fine and good, but the courts do have to actually do the punishing.
Is it any wonder these scum bags don't give a flying fuck about anybody or anything when you they get custodial sentences like the above. They don't do the maths IMHO, they just know they have very little chance of the local un-armed plod getting involved unless they absolutely has to, but then would you? Faced with a cracked up 17 year old with a Glock, a knifeproof vest, some CS, a stick and few leaflets would not be my weapons of choice. Give the cops guns, every last one of them. I've seen brawls abroad stopped instantly by the arrival of one armed cop. I've also seen two van loads fail to stop similar brawls in the UK. Surely that's a much more efficient use of police time? Thug boy on the street, knowing he has a very real chance of being stopped and or shot, might just think twice about carrying what is already a completely illegal weapon.
The police want the five-year minimum sentence extended to everyone over 17 for the possession of an illegal firearm and/or ammunition, why doesn't the Gov agree to do it.Because there is no problem, the stats prove it. Shame that Liverpool kid wasn't shot with stats.
I suppose we will be back to the bad old days of 24 hour ARU's on the streets.This is exactly why all cops should be armed, otherwise only the very ones who shouldn't have them, have them.
Read this, its bloody funny as well as utterly depressing.
http://coppersblog.blogspot.com/
You're asking us to actually sit down and read an entire book? I haven't even got the attention span to finish writing this p..
Attention span!!! That reminds me, must take the goldfish for a walk.......
You're asking us to actually sit down and read an entire book? I haven't even got the attention span to finish writing this p..
Oh OK I will precis it for you.
a) The media really distorts data and scaremongers
b) When a low-income black woman was a test case that led to the legalisation of abortion she was responsible for lowering violent crime 20 years later. Basically because most violent crime in the US is committed by black young men aged around 20. Because the abortion law was changed, simply less poor black women were actually have kids after that. Hence 20 years later there is a MASSIVE decline in the 'population' of 20 year old low-income black men in America
c) Other really good stuff about the Ku Klux Klan and how they operated and were exposed
d) Why drug dealers live with their mothers
e) If the name you give a child effects its chances in life
It's really good and although about economics, is very easy to read. It's like a pop sci book really.
You're asking us to actually sit down and read an entire book? I haven't even got the attention span to finish writing this p..
lol
strictlybroadband
08-24-07, 04:15 PM
Do you know that for a fact, or is it just something you believe?
Here are the stats... but the tabloid hysteria says crime is rising and the police need more powers, so it must be true.
http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/files/images/BCS_Total_crime_06.gif
http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page54.asp
Here are the stats... but the tabloid hysteria says crime is rising and the police need more powers, so it must be true.
http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/files/images/BCS_Total_crime_06.gif
http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page54.asp
Come on you don't realy trust the stats do you?
I don't thinkin crime is getting worse I do see more cocky little shitbags on the streets though I think SPAR is to blame cos thats where they get their beer from.
strictlybroadband
08-24-07, 04:28 PM
Come on you don't realy trust the stats do you?
What else is there? Sun headlines?
I know that my area was rougher 30 years ago than it is now. But then, it's gentrified so that's no guide. I still feel safe in London. I've never, and I mean never, had any trouble in the streets, and I've lived here 42 years and counting.
Teenagers have always been mugging and attacking teenagers, that's not new. I think there are some more guns around than there were, but gun crime in this country is TINY compared to many other places. So enough media hysteria, and let's work on facts, not bollocks. Where's the evidence of increased crime, except for the moaning tabloids?
strictlybroadband
08-24-07, 04:42 PM
Interesting figure... it's hard to lie about homicides:
There were a total of 765 homicide offences recorded in 2005/06, a decrease of twelve per cent compared to the previous year. The figure of 765 includes 52 homicide victims of the 7 July London bombings.
So murder was down last year. But there were still more than 2 per day. So if the press wants to create a false impression that murder is on the rise, they can headline a murder every single day. Then people start saying "Ooh, whatever's happening to society? Ain't it awful? In my day you could walk the streets naked at night..." and similar crap.
Gun crime in Manchester is now creeping back up again.
I don't know what it is like anywhere else except to say there
seems to be a big with problem with what th Met calls "black on black"
shootings in an area of London.
I live in what is classed as nice suburb of Manchester and even we are seeing
more ARU's patrolling around because the scumbags are moving out of the
inner city areas to suburbia to deal drugs and all the other shit they get upto.
30 yaers ago when I was a teenager if you had a problem with someone you went toe to toe, no weapons. Nowadays you can't do anything if you have a problem with a group of scumbags.
give the police stun guns and let the armed police do their job if confronted by an armed thug.If the scum bag won't put their weapon down shoot them.
But when confronted by the armed police the scumbags just give up.
The courts need to get tough and send them to prison for the full term they are sentenced too.If you get five years you should do five years.
Here is how to deal with scumbags and bollocks to their civil liberties;
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1014/1014006_gun_gangsters_caged.html
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1014/1014176_police_wait_for_released_gangsters.html
These are the type of people that the scumbags look up to.
Thats me done, Bank Holiday starts now, have agood one.:P
What else is there? Sun headlines?
I am not saying its gone up or the Sun is right but stats are bullshit.
I mean what about about when they reclassified canabis a few years back?
That probly knocked a chunk of dumb arrests for weed off the overall crime figures. Meanwhile something serious like robbery could have gone up.
And what about internet crime? I am sure that alone would have caused the stats to rise massively over the past 2-3 years if it was actually reported or the police understood it.
Stats are bullshit and they rig them anyways
So what you are saying is that crime has fallen, every year without fail since Labour came into power. That must be the effect of the socialist workers paradise in which we now live.
Go read http://coppersblog.blogspot.com/ and see what he thinks of government crime stats. But then he's only a plod, so what could he possibly know about crime?
One reason crime has dropped is because its now so hard to report - Someone I know had two mountain bikes stolen from their house. The police refused point blank to record it or issue a crime number. Also note the police no no longer deal with online card fraud - they've handed it all back to the card companies to deal with. No doubt about it. Recorded crime is down.
strictlybroadband
08-24-07, 04:57 PM
I live in what is classed as nice suburb of Manchester and even we are seeing
more ARU's patrolling around because the scumbags are moving out of the
inner city areas to suburbia to deal drugs and all the other shit they get upto.
That's true... in London the inner city is getting safer and the suburbs that were quiet in the 70s are getting rougher. Poorer people are being pushed out as graduates move in to the city.
I know some scumbags, and they're very nice people. Leave them alone.
Here are the stats... but the tabloid hysteria says crime is rising and the police need more powers, so it must be true.
http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/files/images/BCS_Total_crime_06.gif
http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page54.asp
The crime stats for over all crime has fallen. Because the way crime is calculated. Spin has made it so. The stats have fallen not the crimes
But even changing the ways crime stats are calculated, the crimes most people are scared of like violent crime have risen, even by the spin artists very distorted figures
strictlybroadband
08-24-07, 05:00 PM
So what you are saying is that crime has fallen, every year without fail since Labour came into power. That must be the effect of the socialist workers paradise in which we now live.
Poverty's fallen thanks to tax credits and lower unemployment. That's probably a factor.
I live in what is classed as nice suburb of Manchester
contradiction in terms? :P
Read this, its bloody funny as well as utterly depressing.
http://coppersblog.blogspot.com/
read part of it, will read the rest later,you are right funny and depressing.
I like his thought process on herion addicts though.
contradiction in terms? :P
Don't start Wyatt Earp.:P
strictlybroadband
08-24-07, 05:02 PM
Read this, its bloody funny as well as utterly depressing.
http://coppersblog.blogspot.com/
read part of it, will read the rest later,you are right funny and depressing.
I like his thought process on herion addicts though.
Being a copper can't be any fun. Heroin use is much lower now than it was in the 80s though.
But then he's only a plod, so what could he possibly know about crime?
coppers know fuck all about anything apart from aresting you when you are driving 41 in a 40 mile road.
Ask them to do anything else you are usually fuckered
The police are there to collect money. Not solve crimes
Thanks to Mr Blair and his spinoholics
strictlybroadband
08-24-07, 05:05 PM
coppers know fuck all about anything apart from arresting you when you are driving 41 in a 40 mile road.
And arresting you when you're minding your own business. On Hampstead Heath. At 3am.
I'll get my coat.
Being a copper can't be any fun. Heroin use is much lower now than it was in the 80s though.
I definately haven't got the temperament to be a copper :fighting0097: well maybe one in a 70's type West Midlands Regional Crime Squad..:noway2:
Seriously the coppers nowadays have a really tough job.
I will support our local Police Inspector tonight, I will get her 2 G+T's....
And arresting you when you're minding your own business. On Hampstead Heath. At 3am.
I'll get my coat.
Never been arrested on Hampstead Heath
It was clapham common :P
coppers know fuck all about anything apart from arresting you when you are driving 41 in a 40 mile road.
Ask them to do anything else you are usually fuckered
The police are the collect money. Not solve crimes
Thanks to Mr Blair and his spinoholics
Yes absolutely, but since reading his blog I get the feeling that at least some cops would be happier catching real criminals rather than acting as nannies and cash machines for the government.
Cops certainly don't do what I want, and it looks they don't get to do what they want either. So I wonder who they are really serving?
If only solving crime didn't involve abusing some poor criminals basic human rights in some way, they might be in with a shot, but as it does, they're not.
Yes absolutely, but since reading his blog I get the feeling that at least some cops would be happier catching real criminals rather than acting as nannies and cash machines for the government.
Cops certainly don't do what I want, and it looks they don't get to do what they want either. So I wonder who they are really serving?
If only solving crime didn't involve abusing some poor criminals basic human rights in some way, they might be in with a shot, but as it does, they're not.
Personally Im for the old days, like Regan, who gave the criminals a fucking good kicking before nicking them
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1830000/images/_1834928_sweeney3300.jpg
strictlybroadband
08-24-07, 05:26 PM
Personally Im for the old days, like Regan, who gave the criminals a fucking good kicking before nicking them
Yeah, and the Krays. They loved their Mums and you didn't have to lock your doors.
Yeah, and the gays. I love their bums and often take it up the back doors.
:noway2:
WordsforHire
08-24-07, 05:43 PM
Hahahahaah that made me giggle!
Bernice
08-24-07, 06:20 PM
Try not to forget in the 'old days' Regan would have come round and kicked YOUR arse for being a porn peddlar and you'd be in the nick under the OPA most likley with legions of 'honest' citizens demanding you nuts be cut off for peddling filth.
Unfortunately the liberal society which many deplore is what allows us pornsters to make cash - one begets the other really.
A return to 'Victorian' values would have everyone on this board out of business.
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