4X4's - will be worth getting soon [Archive] - Beer and Bollocks

Video Rob

03-20-07, 04:35 AM

Unpopular? they've never been more popular

If you can afford to buy and run a big 4 x 4 then you can afford a few hundred extra a year for tax and parking fees.
These new charges are not going to deter most people. They're simply a way to get more money out of them.

If you run your diesel on cooking oil your engine won't last long. You either have to buy biodiesel or convert your car so it can take pure oil. Even then its not free, wether you buy the oil or get used oil you still have to pay tax on it.

03-20-07, 10:21 AM

Wont stop many people driving them, like my Mrs. Just another tax on the middle classes. That wont meen fuck all to the enviroment. If you cant afford another £200 a year you wont be driving a 4x4 anyway

Simon

03-20-07, 10:32 AM

Whenever a new tax comes along, usually justified by its green-ness the arguement usually goes:-

"The tax will encourage us to stop doing X"

but then they immediately admit it won't with:-

"The extra money raised will be used for Y"

What extra revenue, I thought we were going to reduce doing X and it wasn't about theiving a little more of my money?

xcite-tv

03-20-07, 10:52 AM

higher 4x4 tax ???

Great !! it will keep all the old cheap shite M plate Discoverys and wannabe pikeys driving Jap import Pajero's off the road ...bring it on

as for proper 4X4 owners whats another £200 a year ......bring it on

why tax only 4x4's anyway ??? fucking stupid .... your telling me a 2.9 V6 diesel 4x4 is more harmfull to the enviroment than a Merc E55 AMG...

more stupid media bollocks against the car from those who call for these taxes and know little about the reality of the way cars work.

Thats it... i am going to knock down a smug beardy cunt on his mountain bike in town after the budget tomorrow... oh and i hope there is a few feet of snow tomorrow too !!

03-20-07, 11:00 AM

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 11:26 AM

I agree with that rant, apart from the import Pajero's, I havnt got one but know some people who have they are actually bloody nice cars and way better than the UK spec ones

Carry on ranting and knocking beardy people off bikes :)

I haven't got a beard.

-HF

03-20-07, 11:29 AM

oh and i hope there is a few feet of snow tomorrow too !!

snow is capitalist propaganda. in fact there has never been snow in years. global warming and all, innit.

xcite-tv

03-20-07, 11:57 AM

I haven't got a beard.

but do you have an opinion on which car is worse for the enviroment
a 4x4 Discovery 2.9 V6 diesel or a Mercedes E55 AMG saloon car ?

as all this anti car venom is aimed at 4x4's it would be interesting to know why.. do they take up more road space ? do they kill more pedestrians/ cyclists ? Use more fuel ? than a large saloon car ??

DO they fuck..

well apart from ours :)

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 12:07 PM

but do you have an opinion on which car is worse for the enviroment
a 4x4 Discovery 2.9 V6 diesel or a Mercedes E55 AMG saloon car ?

Nope - I'd rather drive the Merc though.

do they kill more pedestrians/ cyclists ?

Yes, they do kill more pedestrians: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4462

But that's not really it... where I am, you get these enormous, shiny, brand new Range Rovers double and triple parked everywhere by school run mums. I don't think these things ever get driven more than 2 miles. I've nearly been hit twice in recent times, both times by 4x4s. My sister was hit by one last year. What is it that makes 4x4 drivers so shite? Who knows. But mums don't need two tons of turbo-charged 4x4 to take the little darlings to school.

-HF

03-20-07, 12:24 PM

But mums don't need two tons of turbo-charged 4x4 to take the little darlings to school.

so we are gong to tell people what they can drive. awesome. preferably Moskvitch. and in the distance The Internationale is being hummed.

xcite-tv

03-20-07, 12:30 PM

Nope - I'd rather drive the Merc though..

good choice ...but not for the enviroment

Yes, they do kill more pedestrians: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4462

But that's not really it... where I am, you get these enormous, shiny, brand new Range Rovers double and triple parked everywhere by school run mums. I don't think these things ever get driven more than 2 miles. I've nearly been hit twice in recent times, both times by 4x4s. My sister was hit by one last year. What is it that makes 4x4 drivers so shite? Who knows. But mums don't need two tons of turbo-charged 4x4 to take the little darlings to school.

Clichéd media bollocks !!!! did you think of all that yourself ?

We have shiney new Range Rovers here too.. As i do actually have to run kids to school (and one of them a private snobby school) the majority of cars are NOT 4x4's and they dont always double/ triple park any more than anyone else.

as for your article on "potential" deaths by 4x4.. Lies, damn lies and statistics. get some stats on pedestrian road deaths in THIS country

i have said it before i would much rather be hit in a low speed accident by a large 4x4 than a bicycle

how many 4x4's do you see ignoring the laws of the road and tearing through red lights. or driving down pavements at high speed like those jolly good folk on pushbikes

S.D.

03-20-07, 12:32 PM

http://www.diseno-art.com/images/bigfoot_5.jpg

(Big Foot: Handy For The School Run & Beard Bashing)

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 01:58 PM

so we are gong to tell people what they can drive. awesome. preferably Moskvitch. and in the distance The Internationale is being hummed.

You don't think people should ever be told anything? What's your stance on gun prohibition (guns kill less Brits than 4x4s).

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 02:12 PM

good choice ...but not for the enviroment

I've never claimed to be an environmentalist, that's just what you label me. In the 15-odd years I owned cars, I enjoyed driving (fast). But I came to some conclusions.

First that if I keep driving 15K - 20K miles a year, I'll either be injured or killed, or I'll kill or injure someone else. I know enough people who have been injured or lost friends and relatives. My wife lost two family members in one crash (for example).

Second, that cars and humans cannot peacefully co-exist. You either live somewhere human-friendly or car-friendly, not both. I like city life, and city life isn't compatible with driving everywhere.

Third, I'm fitter and healthier than I was 10 years ago thanks to not having a car. My journeys are less stressful, I no longer get lower back pain and I'm slimmer.

Fourth, cars kill more people than guns and illegal drugs combined. Over 3,000 people a year are killed, over 20,000 are maimed. That's like a war zone, and nothing else is nearly as dangerous.

So it's not about the environment (for me). It's about lives and lifestyle.

03-20-07, 02:15 PM

You don't think people should ever be told anything?

Not when its something that makes no sense at all and is only implemented to in force a certain group of society's prejudices at the expense of another group.

The increase in tax for 4x4 is a joke when other bigger much less fuel efficient cars don't pay the same.

Its a law implemented to appease jealous nissan micra driving losers who cant afford anything better.

adultbusiness

03-20-07, 02:15 PM

First that if I keep driving 15K - 20K miles a year, I'll either be injured or killed, or I'll kill or injure someone else

How did you come to that conclusion??

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 02:41 PM

How did you come to that conclusion??

Because I and my workmates were driving big distances and getting in accidents on a regular basis. One guy I worked with had a major crash and was fucked up for 3-4 months. Then a woman I worked with at another company had a crash and ended up with permanent back injuries. I've had some accidents, some my fault and some not. In the worst one I got whiplash when I was hit from behind by a lorry. So I've been luckier than many.

Do the numbers: 3,500 people will die (including almost 1,000 kids) and 20,000 people will be maimed on the roads this year. What else is that dangerous?

xcite-tv

03-20-07, 03:09 PM

I've never claimed to be an environmentalist, that's just what you label me.

not at all. you assumed i did

First that if I keep driving 15K - 20K miles a year, I'll either be injured or killed, or I'll kill or injure someone else. I know enough people who have been injured or lost friends and relatives. My wife lost two family members in one crash (for example).

I have been driving on the UK's and Europes roads since 1973 (34 years!!!) I average 25,000 miles a year. i have never killed or injured anyone. including myself and that also includes another 5 years in various forms of racing neither do i know any of my family who have been hurt..i guess i must be lucky

Second, that cars and humans cannot peacefully co-exist. You either live somewhere human-friendly or car-friendly, not both. I like city life, and city life isn't compatible with driving everywhere.

thats quite a statement considering cars and humans have existed ok for the last 100 years.

Third, I'm fitter and healthier than I was 10 years ago thanks to not having a car. My journeys are less stressful, I no longer get lower back pain and I'm slimmer.

your one good point. however your telling us your fitter by not driving a car when in reality your fitter by doing more excersise your also assuming that car drivers are unfit creatures who never exercise i drive around 25,000 miles a year and still find time, astonishingly enough, to walk and run over 3 miles every day sometimes more.

Fourth, cars kill more people than guns and illegal drugs combined. Over 3,000 people a year are killed, over 20,000 are maimed. That's like a war zone, and nothing else is nearly as dangerous.

try alcohol and cigarettes ...go do some research on the numbers they kill...

there were over 3000 arrests last year for football related violence ...so we ban football ??

So it's not about the environment (for me). It's about lives and lifestyle.

cars,drugs,guns, cigerettes,alcohol, none of these things kill....stupid people kill

xcite-tv

03-20-07, 03:13 PM

What else is that dangerous?

how about an estimated 114,000 deaths from smoking... figures from action on smoking (ash)

and alcohol related death are running at 6.9 per 100,000 of the population. (office of national statistics)

any good?

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by strictlybroadband
Second, that cars and humans cannot peacefully co-exist. You either live somewhere human-friendly or car-friendly, not both. I like city life, and city life isn't compatible with driving everywhere.

thats quite a statement considering cars and humans have existed ok for the last 100 years.

Existed OK you reckon?

Heathcote Williams in Autogeddon says "More than seventeen million people have been killed on the roads since the motor car first appeared. An incalculable number have been seriously hurt.

17 million dead! On that basis, the Nazis and the Jews got on really well together.

Jel

03-20-07, 04:30 PM

"Do the numbers: 3,500 people will die (including almost 1,000 kids) and 20,000 people will be maimed on the roads this year."
Source: http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum/showpost.php?p=117835&postcount=18

"1,427 people in Britain died as a result of drug misuse in 2004."
Source: http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1222808.ece

How many drug users, and how many drivers?

"Recent studies have suggested that there are over 130,000 and possibly as many as 200,000 dependent drug users in England and Wales."
Source: http://www.drugscope.org.uk/druginfo/drugsearch/faq_template.asp?file=%5Cwip%5C11%5C1%5C2%5Chowman y.html

"More than one million drivers (5% of the total) are believed to be driving uninsured on British roads"
Source: http://www.computerquoteinsurance.com/content.php?nav=5

xcite-tv

03-20-07, 04:34 PM

Heathcote Williams in Autogeddon

the title of your research pretty much sums up the bias of the writer. (and reader)

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 04:47 PM

the title of your research pretty much sums up the bias of the writer. (and reader)

If you say so... I like cars. Just think that unleashing millions of them onto the roads is one of the craziest things mankind has ever done to itself. Oil wars or not, global warming or not, cars have fucked up our way of living good n proper (if you don't believe me, go and visit Houston or LA).

-HF

03-20-07, 05:26 PM

You don't think people should ever be told anything?
where did i say that? you are becoming an awesome Markham substitute with your ways of twisting what was said.

What's your stance on gun prohibition (guns kill less Brits than 4x4s).
prohibitions never work, not that it would keep control freaks and their supporters from trying them on again and again.
and i was right with my predictions i made right after the ban was setup in the light of the Dunblane fuck up. fuck up because it was sheer idiocy to allow a man known for his violent moments having his guns back. had the exisiitng laws been executed properly, he wouldn't have been allowed to receive them back.

with guns being illegal, they are just being sold on the black market. well supplied black market = lower prices = more can afford them. and results in even less control over the guns out there.
drugs have been trafficked before the gun ban, it was an absolute logical concluson that someone who smuggles one good anyway, might as well take another demanded article and supply that as well. latest numbers suggest a street price of 50 quid for a gun. 3 teenagers shot dead by teenagers in London within the last 6 weeks alone suggest there are some armed bastards out there.

gun bans have a long tradition. commonly in countries ruled by dictators (you know, the kinda folks that love to tell people what they can do, usually by lots of laws and regulations). only a gov that fears its citizens will see the need to disallow arms.

but let's take your 'everyone shall be told what they can do' approach a bit further.
people get stabbed, let's all eat with our fingers anymore and grow long beards.
people get hurt by heat, disallow ovens, heaters and obviously open fire right away.
people stumble and slip, let's have all pavements padded.
people get beaten up, let's issue a mandatory straight jacket for everyone leaving their bed.

-HF

03-20-07, 05:28 PM

17 million dead! On that basis, the Nazis and the Jews got on really well together.
always a delightful moment in any nonrelated debate when someone is in need of using the Nazi argument to support their views. :)

does Heathcote Williams provide the maths for his 17 million dead, BTW? or is that just a number thrown out for the shock moment?

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 05:39 PM

WordsforHire

03-20-07, 05:40 PM

Guns dont kill people, people do.

Cars dont kill people, people do.

Drugs dont kill people, people do.

My point being is that is people were smarter or used their head a bit more shit wouldn't happen as much.

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 05:45 PM

Guns dont kill people, people do.

I thought it was rappers.

xcite-tv

03-20-07, 06:06 PM

No word of a lie, but I just phoned an old friend, and he was knocked down by a car yesterday! Somersaulted in the air, landed flat on his back, and doesn't seem to have a scratch on him. So I take it back - cars are flffu, harmless things.

where was he when hit, road or pavement ?

just asking as if it was pavement you have a point... if it was the road the stupid fucker shouldn't have been there at the same time as a car.

BTW do you always just ignore the points you are wrong on.. and blindly go on about other meaningless shit.

the car IS a way of life for some people. To follow your argument we should get rid of all stuff we didnt have when we first inhabited this planet because its ruined our way of life

spann0

03-20-07, 06:14 PM

how are they definiing 4x4? is it just all 4wd cars?

I mean they would have to include a lot of non-SUV cars like audi TT's and impreza if they do it that way

sounds like a tax on school run mums, footballers, hairdressers and chavs

I'm all for it!

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 06:20 PM

the car IS a way of life for some people.

So is heroin.

To follow your argument we should get rid of all stuff we didnt have when we first inhabited this planet because its ruined our way of life

I haven't said get rid of cars, but you enjoy misunderstanding me. I've just pointed out what a mess they've made of things. I'm not against technology, but it can be used smartly or stupidly, and here's a great example of mass stupidity (encouraged by the oil, car and road-building companies who have profited in the trillions).

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 06:21 PM

sounds like a tax on school run mums, footballers, hairdressers and chavs

It's time to lay off chavs. Join my "leave the chavs alone" campaign.

del

03-20-07, 06:33 PM

The big 4x4 debate is exactly what the government and the media want.

Global warming = my arse, this planet has been getting hotter and hotter for thousands of years, how else did the planet evolve from the ice age?

media = they make a killing out of all the scare mongering and it makes good viewing.

government = excellent excuse to add another tax to the people. I believe this is the 100th tax increse under "new" labour.

Its like the millenium bug, one big false con!

rant over :)

xcite-tv

03-20-07, 06:34 PM

So is heroin.

I haven't said get rid of cars, but you enjoy misunderstanding me. I've just pointed out what a mess they've made of things. I'm not against technology, but it can be used smartly or stupidly, and here's a great example of mass stupidity (encouraged by the oil, car and road-building companies who have profited in the trillions).

sorry but your being either silly (the heroin comment) or condescending , I am NOT misunderstanding you... i am reacting to what you actually say.

Your sound like (unless i am misunderstanding you) someone who is just following the common media herd with your views on the car.

I didnt misunderstand you when you said, and this is verbatim

" Do the numbers: 3,500 people will die (including almost 1,000 kids) and 20,000 people will be maimed on the roads this year. What else is that dangerous?"

my answer, alcohol and cigarettes .to which you replied some bollocks about 17 million killed since the car was invented

you needed to qualify that with the numbers dead worldwide from alcohol and tobacco abuse since they were invented !! ...i am not misunderstanding you just interested in proving you wrong if i can being a car lover under attack from all sides..

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 06:45 PM

" Do the numbers: 3,500 people will die (including almost 1,000 kids) and 20,000 people will be maimed on the roads this year. What else is that dangerous?"

my answer, alcohol and cigarettes .to which you replied some bollocks about 17 million killed since the car was invented

you needed to qualify that with the numbers dead worldwide from alcohol and tobacco abuse since they were invented !! ...i am not misunderstanding you just interested in proving you wrong if i can being a car lover under attack from all sides..

I assumed you were taking the piss. Death by alcohol or tobacco (and the other big one, obesity) is self-inflicted. Death by car or gun usually isn't. It's not a valid comparison.

CosmicTang

03-20-07, 06:48 PM

Because I and my workmates were driving big distances and getting in accidents on a regular basis. One guy I worked with had a major crash and was fucked up for 3-4 months. Then a woman I worked with at another company had a crash and ended up with permanent back injuries. I've had some accidents, some my fault and some not. In the worst one I got whiplash when I was hit from behind by a lorry. So I've been luckier than many.

Do the numbers: 3,500 people will die (including almost 1,000 kids) and 20,000 people will be maimed on the roads this year. What else is that dangerous?

The republican party?

Seriously though. I've wondered if SUVs are as popular in Europe as they are here. I lived in Europe and I remember the roads being kinda small to drive the behemoths people drive around here.

I don't know why some people buy these hulking vehicles that weigh 8000 pounds. My brother just bought a big pickup truck that gets 14mpg and thinks that's 'not bad'.

Of course I really like the Infiniti crossover vehicles, like the FX35.

but I digress. Are SUVs as popular in Europe? I always imagined that Europeans scoffed at our brazen wastefulness and SUVs were just another expression of that.

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 07:01 PM

but I digress. Are SUVs as popular in Europe? I always imagined that Europeans scoffed at our brazen wastefulness and SUVs were just another expression of that.

They've become very popular in the past 2-3 years or so. But not as much as the US, because our roads are smaller, parking spaces are smaller and (most important) petrol (gas) is much more expensive here.

Obviously there's a difference of opinion about SUV drivers. Some people think it's perfectly sensible to drive a fuck-off big truck and others think they're complete wankers. I sit on the fence. :)

xcite-tv

03-20-07, 07:14 PM

They've become very popular in the past 2-3 years or so. But not as much as the US, because our roads are smaller, parking spaces are smaller and (most important) petrol (gas) is much more expensive here.

Obviously there's a difference of opinion about SUV drivers. Some people think it's perfectly sensible to drive a fuck-off big truck and others think they're complete wankers. I sit on the fence. :)

no dont sit on the fence...either call me a wanker or listen to why i drive a "truck"

we have motocross bikes for the boys, they need transporting to and from the place they use them. we have a jet ski thing that need towing with a trailer. We have parents who live in the hills of Scotland and we like to visit them all year round. and some parts of the year they are not accesable by a Some fucking electric powered car ...I also as part of my work have to carry loads of camera and lighting equipment and along with props these cannot be transported on a fucking mountain bike.

do i have to apologise for living in the countryside next ?

Oh and when i bought it i had people like you in mind and chose the fuck off petrol version instead of the diesel..

MelnAdam

03-20-07, 07:20 PM

Won't be binning my 4x4, it's the closest thing to a tank that I can get ......

Well, actually, a tank is the closest thing to a tank that I can get but Mel won't let me have one. We don't have enough fields she says .....

Any excuse.

Adam

strictlybroadband

03-20-07, 07:27 PM

no dont sit on the fence...either call me a wanker or listen to why i drive a "truck"

we have motocross bikes for the boys, they need transporting to and from the place they use them. we have a jet ski thing that need towing with a trailer. We have parents who live in the hills of Scotland and we like to visit them all year round. and some parts of the year they are not accesable by a Some fucking electric powered car ...I also as part of my work have to carry loads of camera and lighting equipment and along with props these cannot be transported on a fucking mountain bike.

do i have to apologise for living in the countryside next ?

Oh and when i bought it i had people like you in mind and chose the fuck off petrol version instead of the diesel..

As machines they're great. Only about 5% of Brits live in the countryside - it's the Chelsea Tractors that piss me off (and most other Londoners). You have to realise that only about 15% of Londoners drive on a daily basis, which means that all the traffic, noise, pollution and accidents are caused by a small minority.

A few weeks ago, the mayor closed Oxford Street to traffic on a Sunday, and it was fantastic. The whole mood of the place was different, quieter and more relaxed. City people are sick of noise, congestion and pollution. You yokels can drive whatever you like, just not on moi laaand.

xcite-tv

03-20-07, 07:55 PM

As machines they're great. Only about 5% of Brits live in the countryside - it's the Chelsea Tractors that piss me off (and most other Londoners). You have to realise that only about 15% of Londoners drive on a daily basis, which means that all the traffic, noise, pollution and accidents are caused by a small minority.

A few weeks ago, the mayor closed Oxford Street to traffic on a Sunday, and it was fantastic. The whole mood of the place was different, quieter and more relaxed. City people are sick of noise, congestion and pollution. You yokels can drive whatever you like, just not on moi laaand.

I lived in Gilbert Street just off Oxford St, Clarges St and Chiswick. for 12 years Why the fuck would you want Oxford Street to be "relaxed" kinda misses the point dont you think. you say city people are sick of the noise pollution and congestion....Sorry but thats the point of a city
I still have a city place so less of the "yokel" !!

sorry but people should be able to drive what they want and when they want. I understand if it pisses you off that people drive these in London. But mountain bikers who hurl round town and hit poor pedestrians and smack into cars when they dont get thier own way and run through red lights and ride on pavements really piss me off ...but i dont have the force of the media behind me to follow ..so i get even more angry

-HF

03-20-07, 07:59 PM

City people are sick of noise, congestion and pollution.

noise, congestion and pollution have been there before most of the city people arrived, be it through moving or birth. in fact noise and pollution were there before cars even came into the picture.
it's like those wankers who buy cheap property near airports and then whine that air traffic is getting worse. they have noone to blame but themselves for going there.

they are however free to move to more quiet places, should they desire so. with most cities being more expensive than quiet and clean rural areas, there isn't even much of a financial loss involved.

gawdi

03-20-07, 08:16 PM

S.D.

03-20-07, 09:19 PM

A few weeks ago, the mayor closed Oxford Street to traffic on a Sunday, and it was fantastic. The whole mood of the place was different, quieter and more relaxed. City people are sick of noise, congestion and pollution.

Oh the Irony of it :)

You're praising Livingstone for closing Oxford Street thus stopping the noise & pollution when it's the very large number of buses that he has encouraged & helped to put there in the first place which causes all the misery.

Have you seen Oxford Street these days ? Its a sea of Red Buses, thousands of the fuckers go down it all day kicking out a ton of shite, it truely is horrible.

03-21-07, 09:31 AM

we have motocross bikes for the boys, they need transporting to and from the place they use them. we have a jet ski thing that need towing with a trailer. We have parents who live in the hills of Scotland and we like to visit them all year round. and some parts of the year they are not accesable by a Some fucking electric powered car ...I also as part of my work have to carry loads of camera and lighting equipment and along with props these cannot be transported on a fucking mountain bike.

do i have to apologise for living in the countryside next ?

My Mrs has a 4x4 I bought for her. We dont have bikes, dont tow things, dont ever off road, dont live in the country and have no real reason for having one apart from it annoys people. The more it annoys them the bigger one I'll buy :)

wankmaster

03-21-07, 09:32 AM

Technology, ( including the internal combustion engine ), combined with free choice ( that capitalism thing ) have given us the standards of living we enjoy today. Now, there are moves afoot to reign all that back in, but not to much, or the people won't have it. The plan at the moment seems to be to get us to cut back, but not in a serious way, so we can get the third world to not industrialise, and thus continue living in mud huts and the like. It's a scandal.

There are 300 to 500 million cases of maliaria each year and around 2 to 3 million deaths, most all of them preventable. The ( outdoor spraying ) ban on DDT may have the greeny jumper wearers dancing on their alotments, but it has killed many millions of people ( insert some Nazi/Stalin analogy here, but I can't be arsed ).

http://www.malaria.org/DDT_open.html

Basically we condem millions to death, so we can feel smug over our muesli. The same is about to happen on an even bigger scale as the green wankers "save the planet".